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Post Info TOPIC: Job Choices


~*Service Worker*~

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Job Choices


Not sure how related this is to Alanon but - probably one of the biggest amends I made to myself when getting sober was obtaining my professional license that allowed me to get better jobs with higher pay.  Since being licensed, I have literally worked at 4 different places.  I have been licensed since March 2013. 

So, I am basically always plotting and planning how to progress in my career.  Yes, my salary has doubled since I first came here to Florida 11 years ago.  I know that much of why I drank was to bemoan dropping out of a PhD program and just figuring I could not make up for that in a career sense.  It was what I considered one of my biggest screw ups (dropping out of that PhD program right at the end).  I dropped out because I had a depressive break down over coming out of the closet at age 24 and I just couldn't write a dissertation and handle all the changes at once.

So anyhow, I apply for clinical director jobs on a whim lots of times.  Part of me does this because these are jobs I could not apply for over the last 10 years because I was not qualified/unlicensed.  I have been at this current job working again with Juvenile delinquents for just under six months.  I got a call back to be a clinical director of an adult rehab.  In many ways that is what I want, but it would be job hopping for sure.  PLUS, these adult rehabs have a rep for firing people whenever the owners get mad or are not making money.  Currently, I have job security I think.  Going back into adult rehab will pay more for sure.  So here's the issues I see and maybe you guys can give me feedback:

1. How much of a pay raise is worth job hopping yet again so soon?

2. Why am I always obsessing over the newest job possibility? (I think I know the answer to that but I still don't stop)

3. I think it's all about status and proving some stuff to myself and the money isn't even that needed at this time.  Chuck and I are fine for now.

4. I missed out on career advancement so long...now I'm obsessed with it and it's anti-program.  I need to be happy where I am at.



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PP


~*Service Worker*~

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It sounds to me like you know some of the driving forces behind your thoughts...I don't know you well enough to give you my perspectives on your behaviors.  My career changes were rarely based solely on money, although I had to consider the pay as I was the financial stability for our family of 6....so directives to follow ones bliss need to be balanced by the reality of paying bills, etc.  Money doesn't seem to be a concern for the two of you.  I know you will do,your due diligence in flushing this out for yourself with the feedback that will be following.  I can pose some questions that might be helpful....what struck me in your  post was the last statement of needing to be happy where you are.  Are you happy with your current job?  Does it uplift or drain you?  Being in healthcare is draining and one needs to offset the energies contained in those settings with things that nourish our souls...what are you doing to nourish your soul?  We cannot give from an empty cup.  What do you do to empty yourself out and listen to your HP.  I am not always successful but I need about 20 minutes of quiet uninterrupted time to sit with my eyes closed, daily to quiet my squirrel mind.  Maybe the new possibilities are a way to keep you distracted?  I don't know.  I used to look at houses.

As I was reading through your post, I did hear some whispers of worthiness, shame still in the shadows? Maybe not, if so, you are ruthless in your inventories of you; you will know.  My perfectionist ways haunt me sometimes in decisions such as these....I want to get " things" right, darn it!  I look forward to reading me as you process this.  Your insights and honesty are refreshing and I learn. (((PC)))



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Paula

bud


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I can relate. Many years ago, I completed half of my doctorate when my then AH told me it was the program or him because he needed more... I'm now struggling to redefine my career path and now half way through my second master's program.

When considering jobs and job hopping, I keep to the facts and use a modified step 4 to help. Have you truly evaluated and considered all the new angles of the new job (are you stepping into an embroiling situation? are you given responsibilities but no authority to execute them? Does the new boss have a negative reputation? How are you a great fit for them and they you?), or are you dazzled with the prestige of the opportunity without the other considerations? How would going for the new job affect your reputation? (It wouldn't be job hopping to take it if you were a great fit and enjoyed the position for a while.) How important is it? If the job didn't come along, how satisfied with your current job are you and what would it truly take for you to consider leaving it? (I use this as part of my pro-con list.)

Wishing you all things good-I hope some of these things help you make a decision that is best for you. Keep us posted!



-- Edited by bud on Wednesday 8th of October 2014 11:38:00 AM

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~*Service Worker*~

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Hi Mark, I think it's fantastic that you now have the confidence, self-esteem and credentials to pursue advancement in your career. Working the fourth through 10th step on this process is a fantastic way to understand your drivers and motives. Love the questions that you posted and do believe that you have answered them yourself.

My belief is that you are a young ,qualified man who has worked hard, gained powerful tools in the field and are looking to grow and expand your knowledge and influence. All these are positive assets.

Congratulations on the job offer and please remember that praying on the decision always works.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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Hi, PC: When I read your header, I felt an interior clutch. I'm glad you are asking questions and I am happy to respond. Please bear in mind that my responses come from a woman who moves into a house, places furniture and never changes it again unless I have to buy new.

1. A pay raise - if I didn't need it - would not be a motive for me leaving a new job. What might be your underlying motive for making yet another job change? Is this change in line with ODAT suggestion as found in Hope for Today: Do you have the opportunity, the desire, the ability, the time to make this change? If all four questions are answered the same - could be your HP's will for you if you're considering this change in line with the 3rd and 11th Step? (For me, that has got to be my deepest motive - to act on my HP's will for me).

2. That's a good question. For me, if I'm always looking "out there," I'm trying to avoid something "in here."

3 & 4. Just want you to know that your money, your job title, your marriage doesn't impress me, PC. But - your courageous, empathetic, honest and consistent effort to be the man you've been created to me does. The rest of it is all a paper bag in my experience. You are real and I don't think those jobs, your money or even marriage are the reason for it. They enhance it to some degree, but it is you as you are that touches, moves and inspires me.

I did want to add something that my Dad said to me when I was in my 30s that I've followed:  Do what you love and the money will follow.  I have followed that advice for years and years and it has never failed to be true for me.  If I don't love something, it doesn't matter how much I'm paid - I can't stay with it.  That's true for me.  I can't say that is true for you.

I did have a thought yesterday about you though. I was thinking about a man I had experienced in an Alcohol/Addictions Workshop with Martin Sheen who were sponsored by a Healing Center here a few years ago. His life had been a train wreck and he changed that. He also was very honest, didn't talk in platitudes and was very obviously a healed/healing therapist in the field. There was no missing for me all that he taught and I carried what he taught with me right out the door into both my professional and personal life and still refer to it in my memory. I can see you doing that some day, PC. It could very well be a way of service work for you. Not everybody can speak as honestly and clearly as you do or help support and educate those of us who aren't addicts or alcoholics. Your work of service on this board is also something I take in and apply to my own life and I don't pay you a nickel. I appreciate you for you and I'm grateful for you, too. Nuff said.



-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 8th of October 2014 08:24:44 AM

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

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Hey up Pink, I think you are just having your fussy out with yourself  just because you can, sometimes we are not ready in life for the things we want when we want them, and when we don't get them we take it personally, if only we had the knowledge to see into the future, to see that often the hardest times in our lifes make us the strongest, you have come such a wonderfully long way and are soooooooo deserving of your

career status now, I like to work to live so for me it's all about balance you have worked yourself up to a very fabulous place of choice only you know what you need to feel it x

 

love Katy

   x



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Katy


~*Service Worker*~

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Sounds like you are getting to a position where you are very employable.  As you go up the ranks, it's harder and harder to find the people who can take on the big responsibility and so employers are glad to find one.  That doesn't mean that all employers are sane or reliable or good ideas.  Just that when we're at the bottom of the ladder, we feel lucky to find anything, but as we move up, they're also lucky to find us.

I submit that jobs are kinda like relationships.  I mean in the beginning when we don't have much confidence or experience, we feel lucky to land one, and we accept pretty much whatever's on offer.  But later on when we know what's what and we have a lot to offer, we should be just as choosy as the employer.  (Assuming you already are employed, of course.)

I did a lot of the job thing all wrong, and from that experience, here's what I think now.  I think it's good to have some kind of idea where you want to end up, early in the game.  This is one place where I went wrong - I was all "They like me!  They like me!  That means I'll take this one!"  But I didn't have a plan, so I couldn't recognize when the right thing came along because I didn't know what the right thing might look like.

Your plan sounds as if it involves more money, more responsibility and a higher rank.  Those are all totally normal things to aim at career-wise.  My own philosophy is that if you're going to be putting in the time and energy, you might as well get maximum returns for it.  But I'd guess we both also have an aim of living sane and balanced lives, without working under capricious bosses or suddenly finding ourselves jobless without a plan.

So maybe the thing is to do due diligence on the potential employers, and not make the jump until the right place comes along.  This also heads off the potential of having a difficult line on your resume - "Let go after three months because this job was a revolving door and the bosses are crazy." 

In other words I'm trying to say that moving up is not bad, but taking care where you move up is important.  That's the difference between jumping into any old relationship and marrying the right guy.



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~*Service Worker*~

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I do want to add, too, that as a previous employer, I always looked at how long somebody stayed in a position. I was looking for consistency and commitment in an employee in addition to their skill level, education and references. Training a new person and trusting them took awhile for me and was a sacrifice on my end, too. I didn't want to add a person to the staff that went from job to job. So, I always hired those who had been with a previous employer in some helping profession, didn't have a lot to say that was negative about their previous employers or employment, and were honest in their interviews with me. The work I did required "staying power" because there was so much to learn and to understand about "our guests" or "clients," and about ourselves as well. I was fortunate to have hired mainly folks who could stay with the work for at least one year and most stayed much, much longer than that. I always required a one year commitment from both volunteers and staff, knowing that we would hits bumps in the road that would be challenging and yet growth inducing. Most stayed with that one year commitment except for only a handful of people and that is truly how the organization grew because we had seasoned staff and volunteers who had been able to weather a lot of storms in the work. A policeman shared with folks at my retirement dinner that he had been to every youth program there was in the City (we did more than youth programming but he was a co-worker of mine with a cosponsored project) and found our program to be the best there was and the "real deal." I truly believe that his experience was due to the fact that we'd stayed cohesive and were able to do with "our folks" what many other organizations couldn't really do because there was constant turnover.

I know that I am of a different generation than those who are coming after me and yet I just don't think that always being on a "career path" is as beneficial to growth as staying where one is and being transformed from the inside out. And - that again - is just me. I present this as one of those take what you like and leave the rest opinions based on my own experience in the helping professions.



-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 8th of October 2014 10:38:21 AM

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

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I find this such an interesting question because im the opposite. Ive firmly planted myself in my job, terrified that someone will take it away. Could you be in a really good place, really know your worth and so feel confident enough and energetic enough to keep progressing? I sometimes struggle with these issues so I can get a bit like, me, move up and on, nah, ive already gone beyond my expectations. I would say your desire to move and keep the learning going and self progression is a healthy place to be.

I do get what you mean about being happy in the moment, right now, with everything that you have. Thats also healthy. Im not there yet, im still at unhealthy grateful and scared to move. Being satisfied and content is a state of mind that were always striving for I think and it doesnt matter where you are or what your doing it will always be an inside thing.



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~*Service Worker*~

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I can understand why people want to hire you. You are obviously great at helping people on this forum. You know just what to say to help people become strong.

My thoughts about the job...I think doing what you really like would be good. Do you prefer juveniles over adults? If money isn't an issue for you right now, I would think about what type of people you prefer to work with.
Also, since the job with adults fires people a lot, that sounds risky...but if you change your mind you could always check back with them in another 6 months or so since they would probably have a few job openings. :)



-- Edited by Newlife girl on Wednesday 8th of October 2014 09:22:18 PM

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Living life one step at a time



~*Service Worker*~

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LOL! Good one, NLG.

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

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Mark,

I have nothing to contribute to help you choose what to do. You will know if in your heart if being more hands-on feels better or if you are an executive type.

Just wanted to say, I am so happy for you that you now have a chance to choose between attractve positions. That has to help make up for any angst from the past.

It seems just no time ago that you were in a place where others were sloughing off and you were being conscientious and feeling some resentment towards those who weren't and probably were working too hard.

It must be satisfying to have all that behind you.

(((((PC)))))


NLG:

Very sharp!


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~*Service Worker*~

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So what's that obsessed word thingy mean?  ((hugs)) smile



-- Edited by Jerry F on Thursday 9th of October 2014 01:26:23 AM

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~*Service Worker*~

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When I'm in this kind of situation I imagine that I've said yes and then listen to how I feel about that and then I imagine that I've said no, how does that make me feel? Which answer makes me feel good and excited about myself and what I am capable of doing?

From a practical point of view what could these potential new employers do to help you trust the security of the position that they are offering? There are lots of places who will value your experience and expertise and I think that people respect a well reasoned 'no' as much as they respect an enthusiastic 'yes'.

Congratulations - the choice is yours! And of course your skills are being recognised - you really are an asset!

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~*Service Worker*~

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I am the opposite and love to find a job and stick there no matter how I feel about the people around me. I love job security and am such a creature of routine and habit. Having so much change in my address, school, life in general the last few years I like the things I can make not change well not change. What is being true to yourself? I am still working on getting my professional degree and so can't relate in that way. I can relate a little to wanting a little excitement and newness around me at different times and I can get bored easily, hence I like the pace at work in the nursing world. When I need a little more I decide to go zip lining or sky diving. I can be a bit of an adrenaline junky, but I have learned to gear it towards my outlets. Not sure if this is apples to oranges, but these are my thoughts on it. Sending you love and support always!

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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree

Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666

" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."



~*Service Worker*~

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I also wonder if you change jobs too often it might be a red flag to a future employer down the road.

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Living life one step at a time



~*Service Worker*~

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Times have changed drastically in the Business world.   I have a friend who is a VP with a prestigious Financial Firm for 5 years andnshe is one of the "OLD Timers" .  In fact  they are putting pressure on her to leave as they believe that she has been stagnant in her position for too long .

I think that following your dreams and taken the next right action for your career is very important today Loyalty to a Company is admirable but not at the expense of your happiness.



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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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It was an interesting interview today. I haven't been offered any job. They seemed to like me. It would offer some cool challenges. My current job is stable...Everyone is telling me not to jump ship at my current job and that it doesn't look good to change jobs so much.

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~*Service Worker*~

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I think generally it is true that changing jobs a lot actually disadvantages you competitively.  So it would put you at a disadvantage in competing for the top jobs in the future.  I've been on several hiring committees where I observed people being rejected because they were perceived as job-hoppers.  Take good care of yourself as you go through the process.



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~*Service Worker*~

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i'm thinking of the guy everyone warns us about. He changes his beloved weekly. Then I was shocked when he did it to me.

If your potential employer chews up managers regularly, keep that in mind too,

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~*Service Worker*~

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It sounds like your inner wisdom, PC, is picking up on the outer? My concern would be that you could change to this job and what if that gets in the way of a very prestigious job in the future for you that you'd really like? If you weren't questioning this yourself, I'd be "go for it." But, you are questioning and that opens up a different window of thinking with you for me.



-- Edited by grateful2be on Thursday 9th of October 2014 05:20:04 PM

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig

bud


~*Service Worker*~

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I'm glad the interview went well and you're interested in pursuing it. And while "everyone" is right that it isn't generally a good policy to job hop, if this is a great fit and something that will make you happy and satisfied, then it's certainly worth considering. If an offer is made and you accepted and stayed at it, then it would dispel the less steady jobs that you'll have then put behind you. If you think that accepting another job at this point would completely cripple your future, then this would need to be evaluated for what makes sense to you.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Thanks guys. We will see how it plays out. It was fun to discuss and think about how I would oversee an entire rehab. I currently do that now, but it's 24 kids and there is a large criminal component even more than substances with these kids. That is neither good or bad. It's different. In South Florida, the $$ is in adult rehab. This is the rehab capital of the world where I live. Also, being in program (AA and Alanon) were viewed as giant plusses. That is nice.

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~*Service Worker*~

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smile



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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig

PP


~*Service Worker*~

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Follow your guidance and you won't go astray. 



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Paula



~*Service Worker*~

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It must be hard to work in rehab. Especially after having firsthand experience on both sides of the fence. I know I couldn't do it. They are lucky to have you!

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Living life one step at a time



~*Service Worker*~

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Hey (((Mark)))  I agreed with Paula and I am gonna just esh your points here on what I would do.....

 

1. How much of a pay raise is worth job hopping yet again so soon?

****** Pay is important, but so is happiness....do you like current job?? U mentioned security, that would be a biggie for me...if "firings" at will is plentiful with the adult section, maybe need to re-think....what gives you JOY??  sense of accomplishment??? and yea, does current job pay the bills ok???? balance between being happy and paying the bills is my thing

2. Why am I always obsessing over the newest job possibility? (I think I know the answer to that but I still don't stop)

***** For me it was the "adventure"  grass is greener concept and "oh well I won't get stale/bored"  but sometimes saying in the same ole same ole aint so bad...

3. I think it's all about status and proving some stuff to myself and the money isn't even that needed at this time.  Chuck and I are fine for now.

*****I still kinda want to prove stuff to me as well, but i try to play the good percentages..like do a ledger card on the "prospect"  plusses /minuses   as an accountant, who is only a cert. pub bookkeeper, really, i look at a prospective "change" and do a ledger card...if assets way over do the liabilities, then its worth the next step (checking it out) i don't make commitment until i have kinda cogitated on it , listening to my higher self within me, that quiet voice

4. I missed out on career advancement so long...now I'm obsessed with it and it's anti-program.  I need to be happy where I am at.

******obsession is part of MY addiction personality too, I can obsess over stuff missed...stuff never tried...stuff stuff stuff, but really, i look at the horrendous stuff i had to overcome and I think I have done damned well for one who had no hope..no future..nothing but despair.....i figure if something "better" is in my path, b/c i am open...watching...listening...looking for the signs...willing to change IF it is right for me...then yea, I am not gonna "miss out" on stuff unless that stuff is not good for me...not in my life's chart so to speak.....for me its like i want to make up 50 years and it aint gonna happen....so i can start anew, make a new me NOW, starting from NOW b/c NOW is alli got and ok, the losses sting, but its gone!!! the past is GONE....if i obsess over my losses, i am not drinking in the splendor that today might have for me...............hope i made sense...i am just typing what comes to me from my head/heart to my key board....U R NOT alone....and this IS to me, alanon b/c it is something you are struggling with..............

 



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~*Service Worker*~

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They want me to have a webex/Skype interview with the owner tomorrow. I just want to know what kind of $$ they are talking. This company gets clients referred from unions such as teachers and bus drivers. In a way that is good because it means they are high functioning enough to work. But bad in a way because higher functioning means complaining that the rehab isn't like a resort beach vacation. If I am going to do this, I want to talk about how to expand it and make it more of a top notch rehab.

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~*Service Worker*~

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smile



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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

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Prayers Mark HP's will be done

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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hotrod wrote:

Prayers Mark HP's will be done


 YES YES and another YES....Couldn't have said this better.......no harm in sniffing the other flowers,  hoping you will follow your HP's voice/signs ...i know when I am at crossroads about something i have to MAKE me stop and listen to that inner voice..listen/look for the signs.....like Betty says here...May your HP's will be done



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~*Service Worker*~

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That Skype interview was interesting. Not sure what to think about this company. I do know that at the end, I talked salary a bit and they offered me 5k more than I make, but to switch jobs at this point, I was like "Nope. Gonna take 10k more than I make for me to think about it and 15k to take it." I know it's tacky to talk about money, but this does apply some to program. I never NEVER asked for more than I was offered prior to program. I took what was offered and figured that must be what I was worth.

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~*Service Worker*~

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I'm glad you upped the ante on yourself and although you aren't going to switch jobs yet, you have raised your opinion of yourself and what you are worth to a level that feels right to you. Of course, I think your value to life and to us is without measure although that truth can't be converted to dollars and cents in job interviews. Good self-care, PC.

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig

PP


~*Service Worker*~

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Good for you...it is empowering to not make decisions from survival and desperation.  You stated what would work for you and the results are up to your HP.



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Paula



~*Service Worker*~

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This is like watching progress in action, this post. Its amazing to me, look how far we can go, us damaged ones. Brilliant pinkchip.x

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PP


~*Service Worker*~

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Elcee, sometimes I just have to speak...I don't see any of us as damaged, misguided maybe, but never damagedsmile



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Paula



~*Service Worker*~

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I hear you, damaged may be the wrong word. What about us enlightened ones?

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PP


~*Service Worker*~

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Hmmm....enlightened makes me squirm, toosmile  I am a mish mash of caca poo poo, peanut butter cups and diamondsaww



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Paula



~*Service Worker*~

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Right pp, im usually on your page but nah im lost with this one.x

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PP


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smile I meant that I don't see we are damaged or enlightened...we are a mixture of not so good stuff and good stuff.  I may be getting off topic, I do that sometimeshmm



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Paula

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