Addiction is a progressive disease. She is surely affected by her own alcoholic behavior. Just not drinking does not do much. In fact it can be worse.

Many of us have had to see our family as poison to us and have had to let them go. It is very apparent she does not respect your wishes or validate what you feel.

it is very hard!

You have made a boundary, that takes courage! Believe me you are doing fine. Yes mip will help you, we have meetings online too.

It seems like parents mostly mothers will take care of the one child who causes more problems giving them more attention. Part is guilt I suppose, part is over protectiveness.

you are right to say what you mean, what matters is you said it, not up to us to control how hey take it! A's do not think the same as NON a's. Something to us may be simple, to them too complicated. They do not relate the same as we do.

Welcome!!!

I am so happy to see someone replied and understands how I feel. I thought when I came back here that there would be no replies let alone encouragement.  I appreciate you both doing that more then you know.  For so long, I have felt very alone.  Thank you for taking the time to talk with me.  I have read several alanon books at my library but to have a human speak with me about this really brings tears in my eyes.  You are so right that they don't think like us.  I finally realized I can never understand them because I am not like them.  Poison is the perfect description.  All of this garbage has made me physically ill for so many years.  I worry about them constantly and pray all the time.  Living with a disability daily, I just am tired of being drained even more.  My life is much happier when I don't have to talk with them.  Then I see an email, because I rarely answer the phone now, and I instantly feel like I am going to be sick.  I am going to print myself a little card that says JADE on it.  Do you guys ever get so frustrated that you do want to just argue and defend even though that is not the mature thing to do?  I want them to hear me!  The fact that they don't is hard for me to wrap my head around.  My Uncle told me that is not my job.  He has been an AA member for 30 years and has guided me here.  He does not live close to me but he has always been someone I can talk to.  Again, your responses mean a lot to me.  Thank you!    

Thank you so much pinkchip!  You are absolutely right.  That is what they have told me, that I am being stuck up and selfish.  My Mom is like a 12 year old for sure emotionally with my with my 46 year old brother still attached by the umbilical cord.  I left home around 16 to get away from my VERY abusive father and she stayed with him until I was 26 off and on.  My broken ribs, teeth and eardrum were not enough for her to leave him.  Telling us to our faces he wanted to kill us and we had better be grateful there were no guns in the house.  Those things were inflicted on me constantly and there were always bruises on my cheeks.  She is one messed up lady.  I feel so guilty because I am just so tired of dealing with it all.  I feel worn down.  I live with a disability that a drunk driver caused me so I have had to do a lot of forgiving to be happy.  My life is calm and good.  My husband has been my best friend since I was 21.  We don't have any other family sadly but I have a couple of really good friends who are older ladies.  Things are so shocking when Mom is in the picture.  Very stressful.  She is constantly distracted, manic like and really hard to talk to for more then a couple of seconds.  It is like night and day difference from those times when she is here to my normal day to day life.  I just get so confused with my Mom because she is just that, my Mom. I am really quite sad that it has come to this point but I have to wonder how much a person is supposed to deal with to be healthy within themselves.  I have tried my best to educate myself about alcohol abuse and stay away from it.  I guess I came here for reassurance that it is ok to cut people out if only for a while to save your own peace.  I wanted this chain of idiocy and abuse to stop!    

I understand most of what you are saying...curious, though regarding the statement of you not being a person who attends meetings?  Is there a physical challenge?  

Face to face meetings help a lot. You get yourself out of your isolation. You need human
Contact. I just listened and learned for almost two years at mtgs Just absorbing the
Wisdom people shared. You will come to know others there, find A sponsor to help
You travel the road to recovery. It sounds like you have been suffering for years
And the hurts are very deep.

In Al-Anon, one of the ideas some of us have adopted is: When in doubt, don't. What I see here in your writing is a woman who is at low tide on an energetic level? That may not be true. It's just what I see. If what I see is true for you, it could be you're not up to dealing with Mom freaking out? Maybe more on-line meetings before you send her the e-mail might be helpful to gain more support and a little more confidence if you're feeling like you're on shaky ground? We learn in the program to check our motives before we act, too. If our motives are right, then we can generally trust that the action we take is healthy for us.

Grateful has wonderful wisdom.

I have trouble with my mother and there is no easy answer.

My mother is highly dysfunctional and narcissistic, she is very controlling and a micromanager.
Since starting alanon i have really given her boundaries. She does not like any of them, she
Lives in a different state. But that does not stop her from trying to manage me from afar. I
Dread the day i might need to take care of her she is 81 yrs old. I keep her coversations to
15 minutes sometimes 30 minutes to keep my own sanity i have enough stress.

I really need support right now but she is not what i need To feel good and or to be healthy.
So i talk to supportive friends,alanon sponsor or on here.

My mother attended alanon for twenty years but did not appear to learn anything. She loves
To enable, worry,stress about my other siblings. She even wakes up stressing over problems
That havent even become a problem yet. She likes to invent drama and choas if there is none
To be found. She created the dysfunction in my family but takes no responsibility for the end
Results.

You can not change your mother or her enabling behaviors you can only change you.

I started with the boundaries right away. She was not happy with any of them.



I sent you a private message

It appears from your writing that you are focused on her and the changes you want to see her make, sister. We set boundaries for ourselves and not so the other person will change. So, if you are noticing that relating to her right now is too much for you, what boundaries can you erect for as long as you need them that will help you feel safer and more serene?

As an example, my Mom could be a very critical, character bashing person when she was tired or sick as an untreated ACOA. When she would act out her own insecurities and pain, I could limit my phone conversations with her, leave her home, tune her out or seek out a family member who had the ability to make my Mom laugh when I couldn't and just sit with them and let them "do their magic," while I sat quietly without speaking. If I wanted her to behave any differently, I was setting myself up to argue, defend myself, cry, feel like a victim or fear losing something I thought she had to give me. (At 27, my Mom was still threatening that there wouldn't be any Christmas presents if I didn't do what she wanted me to do and I would feel my childhood clutch of "Oh, no," because Christmas was the only time of year that there were surprises and gifts I truly wanted for me. All of a sudden, I realized that I could buy myself anything she might get me for Christmas and recognized a hook. I told myself "Who cares?" and instantly relaxed. I also said: "Mom, I'm at work and I'd appreciate you not calling me here anymore." If she had called me at work again, I wouldn't have taken the call, but she didn't.)

In Al-Anon, we learn to keep the focus on ourselves, establish boundaries that work for us, and accept others for who they are which is all process and takes time with the help of meetings, literature, a sponsor and the fellowship to incorporate into our minds, hearts and actions. At 65, I am still learning and practicing, practicing, practicing the spiritual disciplines of this program. Fortunately, we have a progress not perfection program and I see you are already making progress by coming here to ask questions and to share.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 8th of November 2014 10:35:57 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 8th of November 2014 10:40:14 AM

Oh and i meant to say, also, that there are relationships that i did't totally want to break off, so i just put them on an outter circle....the closer circles that touch my heart are for the few loved ones i can totally trust and the circles get larger as the relationship becomes more distant....sometimes putting distance is all it takes if u don't want to completely cut someone off....its like not black and white, but there can be grey, too,...i have folks whom i see don't care all that much about me but ohh once in a while they are fun to chat with so i just put distance...i quit making the effort to be friends/family w/folks who are "not that in to me"....I am reciprocal....if ya love me and want me?? I should not have to fight you to respect and want me.......

i hope this made sense

I feel as though I have been hugged. Thank you all! To see these responses today really made me smile and I realize I am not alone with this.

The confusion I have been experiencing has a lot to do with not wanting to go against my faith or hurt anyone but to protect myself, I have no choice anymore. The bible tells us we are to honor our parents but I believe not in abusive situations and the honor goes both ways. I was SEVERELY physically abused as a child. The hitting began when I was 3 months old. I have suffered broken ribs, ear drum and so many bruises until I left home as a teen because my Mom refused to leave my father. She has enabled all of this in my opinion. I had a lot of anger about this for quite a few years then I really delved into my bible and forgave them both and the anger subsided. I began to put boundaries up then. I am always told that I am disrespecting her or not being what God wants me to be. She has told me many times that she is all I have and I am unfair to her. I know that is not true because I have been blessed with my own wonderful family. First time in my life I have felt like I belonged anywhere. I think her manipulations are sometimes unintentional but at this point in my life with my disability and other health issues, it is toxic for my health and I do not care if they are unintentional or intentional. They must stop. This has been going on all my life. Maybe I just don't want to face the confrontation that is coming. Maybe I am just tired and completely fed up.

My brother is a lot like my father in that he is extremely abusive especially to women. As I sit here typing this I realize he has called me the c word before plus many other things I had forgotten about. I don't even know if I want a relationship with him but I certainly will have it be my choice not Moms. I have a hard time moving each day thanks to a drunk driver who hit me and left me there when I was 19. She never even thinks about that. When he was drinking and driving after his 2nd dui in a week, I actually called the DA and told her he was driving. One of the hardest things I have ever had to do in my life but all I could think about was what if he hurts someone and I knew and did not do anything to stop him, I was compliant.

I think that you are all saying that I can say whatever I want to and it is ok. Maybe that is why I came here to begin with to know it was ok to express how I feel to her and that I am not this horrible person. I am trying my best to say it all with love but no matter what I say, she will be angry. I can only control how I am. I got the alanon book but will look for that website pamphlets grateful. I am trying so hard to be a healthy good example for my daughter but you are right, I do get confused. It is hard to accept my family of origin as they are. Are you saying that I should do that and let them go or totally limit their visits? That is what I have been trying to do. The only one at this point I have any contact with is my Mom and that has been very limited.

I appreciate being able to be totally honest here. Feels really good.

tpotterf wrote:

---

 The bible tells us we are to honor our parents but I believe not in abusive situations and the honor goes both ways. I was SEVERELY physically abused as a child. The hitting began when I was 3 months old. I have suffered broken ribs, ear drum and so many bruises until I left home as a teen because my Mom refused to leave my father. She has enabled all of this in my opinion. I had a lot of anger about this for quite a few years then I really delved into my bible and forgave them both and the anger subsided. I began to put boundaries up then. I am always told that I am disrespecting her or not being what God wants me to be. She has told me many times that she is all I have and I am unfair to her. 

---

 Hi....I hope I don't offend you when i say i do not believe in the bible, howerver i would like to share w/you something my cousin said in sunday school.....the topic was "honor thy father and they mother"   she thought of me at the time and she prayed to her God and she got the definite impression/prompt/spiritual info, that if a parent asks of a child or perpetrates upon a child EVIL, then that "honoring thy father/mother" is negated...

My father was a serial child offender....young girls 13 - 17 were his choice...innocent, naive, easy prey, but "looking like women"  and ANY kid would do...even his own DAUGHTER and his NIECES.....my cousin and i were victims.....now does any loving God expect ME to "honor" this human sub-species who ruined my life???  messed up my cousin's life????  this is one of the reasons why i turned away from organized religion and went back to my native american spirituality, but for all my life , i struggled wiht a love/hate relationship with God b/c of this "expectation" that i was to "honor" these people..him the offender....her the enabler who refused to give children protection from him.....how could i honor these people???  how do i honor evil and its accomplice????  I don't.....but i struggled with this for a long time b/c well meaning people would tell me  "oh you have to honor your parents"  and now i say  "no i do not...they were not my parents, they were my predators"  and i know MANY adult children stay w/abusive parents, b/c of this "honor" thing in the bible.....if i am "unevenly yoked" wiht someone that is to my destruction or at the very least detriment....if 2 oxen are hitched up to the same cart and they are unevenly yoked and one pulls differently then the other, they can kill each other.....so to me?? i am a good spirit...I am a vessel of love and peace and a clean walk...I am unevenly yoked w/evil and also i am unevenly yoked w/ toxic people who are emotionally sucking the life out of me...it behooves me to separate from them or at the very least put distance b/c if i do not, then i undermine MY purpose here and MY job here as a mother, grandmother, sister, cousin, friend, worker, etc......

I do hope my answer to you was not offensive, I said this b/c i was in the shackles of rigid beliefs that i had to "honor" him and it made me bitter, angry, resentful, i even turned on God over it......until i realized that the great spirit of MY choice and understanding would NEVER EVER want, much  less, espect me to "honor"  evil or anyone who is abusive and a detriment to my mental and spiritual growth

I ask you to take what you like of my post and discard the rest......i am so sorry your father was not a good dad to you..every little girl deserves and craves good parents, but not all of us are lucky, so we have this "missing part" that we just have to fill with loving others who love and accept us and part of that love is right here in this recovery room.............again, i hope my post was "ok" to share w/you....

A huge part of Al-anon for me has been about changing my reactions into responses (or non-responses). Certain toxic behaviours and personalities trigger me to react rather than respond and I feel ashamed of myself, if I remain in those situations it tends to spiral and I end up constantly reacting and feeling ashamed. (I used to be like that all the time; I don't want to be that way anymore basically).

My mother is one of the people who trigger this behaviour in me; she can be very unkind and childish and if I am around her too much, I fall back into the cycle. She knows exactly how to push my buttons and get me upset and defensive. So for years I have been limiting the time I spend with her because I want to practice healthy ways of relating to the world, not relive the same patterns and traumas over and over!

I have for a long time made regular efforts to meet her on "neutral" ground such as shopping or for lunch and this is usually really nice as long as we keep the conversation light. But as soon as I allow myself into her home or put myself into a "mother/daughter" situation with her it goes downhill very quickly; I don't know why but she seems to really get a kick out of bullying me. I am still full of shame and resentment that can surface very quickly so I kind of see her as a difficult older sister rather than my mother and expect no more from her than I would from a sibling. That relationship works OK for me and it means I have very few expectations of her and am not disappointed, and I am really pleasantly surprised when she does something generous or motherly too.

I do love my mother and I know that she has come from a lot of dysfunction and abuse herself and has coped the best ways she can. I imagine if I was able to speak to her soul, without any of the hurts and defenses, she would agree with me that it's best for me to limit my time with her and not engage in her games because I think, she does love me deep down and I bet she doesn't enjoy the way she behaves either, she just doesn't know of any other way to be or how to control her resentment towards me. (She had me when she was 16, I think she feels I stole her youth or something).

I find there are many loving, kind and wise older women in the world that are willing to show me kindness and share their wisdom and understanding with me, so, my HP makes sure I do not go without motherly love and guidance

So that was my long winded way of saying...welcome, and, personally I think it's not just OK to limit the time you spend with your mother, it's what she probably wants deep down under all of her hurt and resentment too...for her child to go out into the world and live and be happy, not stay in the nest arguing and being miserable. Who would want that for their child, really?

grateful2be wrote:

---

On the subject of the Biblical mandate to "honor your parents" - the root word actually means to "give weight to" or to listen closely to what is said. It doesn't mean to do everything your parents tell you to do as an adult or to put up with abusive behavior on the part of parents.

---

 thank you Catherine for giving your clarification which makes it more palatable........when i went to this councellor  , via skype, (she was in FLA and a friend of a cousin who talked me into letting her counsel me)  I had my doubts, but I thought "oh well, lets be open minded)  so i "skyped" with her our session (i was to get 3 for the price of $99, cousin paid for it to get me to go, b/c I had refused on my dime)....on the 2nd session she tried to FORCE this on me, telling me that if i did not honor him, posthumously, since this was after his demise, that i would not be forgiven for my sins.....she TOLD me #1, i had to forgive him  #2, i had to honor him by thinking of good things about him, really, I am not kidding  and when she got done w/her "dissertation"   I thanked her for her share and politely informed her that I was NOT going to do either and she had NO right to order me to do anything that was not only repugnant to me but impossible and I told her that it was her job to "suggest" and let ME make the choice and she began to argue with me that I MUST do these things....I told her "we are done"  and turned off the skype and just cut her off....DONE...Poof.....I didn't go back......Cousin was mad at me...She was sure i "got it wrong"  I asked "cuz" did she want to hear my little tape recording of this "helpful" session?? she declined...she has since (cuz) kicked me to the curb for "offending" her friend the counsellor extraordinaire ....oh yea, I "had" a great family....and with the exception of the one (sire) , I did manage to forgive these people b/c I am in recovery and they are not and still stuck in dysfunction junction....

You re so right - you don't need to accept the guilt your Mom probably feels. Your primary responsibilities have been to yourself and to your family and like it or not, your Mom endangered your daughter by driving after drinking and there are consequences whether she likes them or not. Of course, her mind will not be able to absorb any of what I'm saying to you and hopefully it will help you continue to feel stronger and more empowered as you do what you need to do for you and for your family. Part of what a Mom thinks her job is is to keep her family together no matter what or how sick it gets. Al-Anon recovery helps with that although it sounds like your Mom needs AA first? Regardless - you can continue to benefit yourself and your family with your own recovery program which can help to arrest this disease to some degree from harming you and/or your family.

I have thought and prayed and revised for two days now and I think I feel ready to send this letter. I changed any biting tone in a couple of areas out of it so that I know I can feel good about what I have said and hold no guilt about things. I feel stronger and will face whatever happens with love and grace. I know Mom will hate it and guilt me but that is ok because I will choose not to accept it. I really value your opinions and appreciate you taking your time to write me.

I am going to keep coming here. It makes me feel really great to have people who give great advice and share. Thank you so much for your very kind words to me. I really needed that more then any of you know. Those words "in support" have such power for a persons life. You guys gave me power and strength in just a few notes. I think to myself what will happen if I keep coming back. I appreciate you!!

Glad you have found us.  They control us by being upset at things they don't want to do or stop doing.  Once we gain the tools to maintain our own inner serenity, we don't mind if they're upset - it's just like the weather blowing by - and so they lose the chance to control us or our mood.  Then they learn that they can't violate our boundaries (although they will try for quite a while in a temper-tantrum "Change back!" kind of way.)

It takes practice and support to set those boundaries and maintain them without losing our serenity.  I'd suggest that you hold off on anything longterm right now, so you're braced with Al-Anon tools for the storm that will come.  That will help you stay calm and centered.  Of course you want to protect yourself along the way.  Hugs.

I'm glad you have found your voice and are prepared to share what you mean, mean what you say and not say it mean. We're here to hold you up if and when the winds of "change back" blow. Stand firmly in your decision. Storm winds usually always move on and out.  Reminds me of the Big, Bad Wolf story:  ..."Or I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down."  Didn't happen.  The little piglets were wiser than the huffing, the puffing and the blowing of the house down when they built the right house.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 11th of November 2014 08:08:47 PM

Well you guys, I did it! I sent the letter to her! I was really shaky at first but I feel really good. I know that if I don't feel healthy and strong when I see her response, I do not have to answer it until I do. I went back and made completely sure I wasn't mean (thank you Grateful, you give such good advice) even though at first, I am embarrassed to say I wanted to be. I said things as lovingly as I could and hold no guilt whatsoever. Really glad I didn't write this directly after the incident cause it would not have been nice at all. What she does with it is up to her. I am proud of myself.

Thank you all so much! This was really really hard for me to do. Nothing long term (thank you Mattie- I am not changing back no matter what) just hopeful but firm.

Neshema, your "SUPPORT" at the end of your posts really makes me happy. Thank you for that so much. That word has great power to introverted shy people like myself.

Breaking free, your situation sounds so similar to mine. I have no family either with the exception of my beloved Uncle Wes who has been actively in AA for over thirty years and who told me to come here. Ironically he is my Moms younger brother. He is so supportive and caring. I am really grateful to have him in my life. Well I take that back. I do actually have a ton of blood family all across the east coast but I don't know any of them except for one Uncle who recently got in touch with me. They are all my fathers family and I have never even seen most of them so I don't think of them as family.

Thank you Fairlee for the nice welcome. You are so right about the enabling parent. I think it must be really hard and confusing to deal with as a parent but now I know there is a proper way to handle those types of things. I hope and pray I never will with my daughter but I have seen that enabling actual hurts more then it helps.

Big smiles from me.