A question about conflict in marriage - Al-Anon Family Group

littlelionman · Veteran Member

A question about conflict in marriage

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

This is familiar to me. My AH was a dry drunk for 15 years so my life was basically like this for a very long time. If I complained with him, then I was competing with him. If I didn't commiserate, then I was against him and not supportive, etc. When he's drinking, he's actually an easy going person but the DUI and the resultant problems and his inability to control himself become problems as the drinking increases.

I am at a point in my marriage where I realize I am done. And, really, it's not the drinking; it's all the other stuff. Immaturity, no emotional connectedness, misogynistic views, passive aggressive behavior, manipulative, the list goes on.....

For me, I know that we can't deal with any of the underlying issues until he's been sober emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and physically for at least a year and that just doesn't seem to be in the cards at this point. I am ready to move on with my life after 20 years of marriage. There is nothing left here for me and nothing left for him, either. I can't meet his needs and he can't meet mine. And, that's OK.

I don't argue about the all night drinking, the spending, etc because I know the fights are futile. I can't change it, I can't cure it, and I know I didn't cause it. I think working on acceptance is key here and maybe you could find some Al Anon readings on acceptance. Once I found acceptance I was able to see that I could accept who he was and what our marriage looked like, and then I was able to admit that it wasn't what I want for my future. Only my HP (God) knows what my future holds and where we'll both be but I've found a lot of peace along the way.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

If she gets up in this state every morning, is there anyway you can get in a walk before, during and after her morning habit?

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I do believe that this is a very familiar pattern for those of us who live with this disease. We have learned how to stay in our own lives, not engage and recognize the hot spots.

Not engaging in the madness is an extremely important tool of this program. Learning to use the tools of NOT reacting and only responding works well.

Keep coming back as you will discover many more similarities than differences. That is why the program is so effective

littlelionman · Veteran Member

I should mention that my wife does drink almost every day, and also smokes pot as well. That said, she isn't in crisis mode every morning. She'll often smoke weed in the morning so she can tell herself she doesn't have a drinking problem, I'm guessing. I can't go for a walk though because we have two little kids that need to be attended to and I've been enjoying making breakfast and putting music on in the morning with them.

Wow I just realized...putting music on in the morning has been on of my new routines to start my day with some serenity. We've been using an app through Xbox that was free for a month and then $9.99 a month after that. Since I started using our free month all she talks about is having to cancel it once our month is up. Two mornings ago she was freaking out about the $9.99 charge we were about to incur, and this is coming from someone who drops 50 bucks on a wine lunch. As soon as I put music on she walked over, turned off the music, and was trying to cancel our subscription. She tried for about 15 seconds and gave up exasperated and asked if I could help her cancel it, all annoyed. I started getting instantly aggravated and rebuffed her with the most annoyed tone...she just about blew her stack and started in with the "you never help me" and the "you don't care about me anymore" nonsense. Cancelling the music app is just her passive aggressive way to get under my skin. And it worked...to a point. I'm catching myself sooner and sooner now. She's going into manipulation overdrive. I've had to just walk away from her more than once this week. I really do need to just ignore it, even though she claims I'm so "mean" by not engaging her.

At my first meeting two months ago the topic was detachment. I read the little piece of literature and thought hey I know how to detach, is this it? Oh the things we think we know...

Thanks for the feedback all

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Good Job my friend . You are detaching and doing well. It is all simply progress not perfection because we will always be imperfect human beings and will never graduate. Knowing the tools and attempting to use them to maintain our own self esteem, and serenity is what it is all about.

If you enjoy the music, and can afford the $9.99 a month, I suggest that you keep the app and tell her you will pay the bill out of your discretionary fund.

Keep on taking care of yourself and the children , you are doing great.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, I've had a lot of breakfast table fights. "I wasn't drinking, no way could that have happened" etc etc. I just stopped engaging in the morning afterward. And really talking about her drinking period, unless she asked me specifically about it.

Kenny

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

When they are using they are always sick She feels crummy becuz her body depends on the drug. What you describe is nothing new. When my A was in recovery, I used to sadly think inside, why don't you drink, you would be more fun. he was so dang boring and blah. BUT I found beauty in his recovery too. But he was not animated or as talkative when he was in recovery.

Its a sick sick sick disease.

Flower49 · Senior Member

My AH's drug of choice was Meth. So if you know about that drug any then you will know he was up for days on end, did crazy weird things and when he had to come down to sleep for 3 days straight is where we got into trouble. We rarely argued or fought much when he was high. We did argue and fight when we would not have enough Meth and would go and buy quarts of beer in order to take away the anxiety.

It took me a little bit to figure out he was using again so I think that is why we didn't have the fights so much in the beginning of his latest relapse. His greatest manipulations, abuse, rage, stealing, lying were when he was coming down and when he had to be sober for more than 4 hours because his dealer was out of the goods.

He is sick and now I know. He has over 150 days sober and we still have our issues, he still many times will try to manipulate, lie and try and do hurtful things, but as I have learned not to react or fall into the trap, he is changing now to for the better.

I am so glad you are here with all of us!!! (((HUGS)))

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, I've definitely noticed that the sober crazies are there - I used to set my clock by the 10.15am argument. I was being goaded as an excuse before the 10.30am drink. In some ways it is easier in my mind when the drink has already flowed because then it was more obvious what is going on. But I think that the alcohol damage takes a long time to clear. AH has been sober a year and I'm still not recognising him as the man I married.

Re the music app - I hope you keep it, it sounds like a lovely way to start the day.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Sober crazies are the REASON for much of the drinking behavior. When I stopped drinking I found myself devoid of coping skills. If I had them to begin with, I drank myself out of them and forced other people to become enablers so I didn't have to develop or redevelop those skills. So...basically, I would feel like I was freaking out and be putting that off on other people whenever I was sober. It was an excuse to drink. It is a disease that whispers into your ear that it is the cure to the problem when it is actually the cause of it. This is why it seems so absurd and insane to those affected...

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you for that feedback Mark, much appreciated. It helps me understand why I often feel as though I'm caught up in cobwebs.

littlelionman · Veteran Member

pinkchip wrote:
Sober crazies are the REASON for much of the drinking behavior. When I stopped drinking I found myself devoid of coping skills. If I had them to begin with, I drank myself out of them and forced other people to become enablers so I didn't have to develop or redevelop those skills. So...basically, I would feel like I was freaking out and be putting that off on other people whenever I was sober. It was an excuse to drink. It is a disease that whispers into your ear that it is the cure to the problem when it is actually the cause of it. This is why it seems so absurd and insane to those affected...

Thank you for the response. This succinctly explains what I've always felt was happening but couldn't quite put into words what the heck was going on.

The one thing I've been wondering is, when my wife tries pawning her issues off on me and then manipulates like crazy, I wonder if she's even remotely aware (deep down?) of what she's doing or if it's so hardwired that she does it automatically and truly thinks I'm the crazy one when I resist being controlled.

To answer my own question in a sense, when I've used manipulation instead of being assertive I never was very aware that what I was doing wasn't healthy either...

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Music: try Pandora on the pc, its free! there are lots of computer stations through windows media player too. About wife problems and stress - first thing I thought about was the whole man/woman difference - when a woman complains about a problem, men want to fix their problem, but sometimes, women just need an ear, maybe someone to say, well, what can you do/do you plan to do about it? is it something you can find a solution for? NOT being told how to fix it, lol. Hanging back and discerning whether she has a viable problem she needs to air and only needs an ear, or if she's fishing for a fight - you can listen to the one, and walk away from the other, or not engage at least.

littlelionman · Veteran Member

likemyheart wrote:
Music: try Pandora on the pc, its free! there are lots of computer stations through windows media player too. About wife problems and stress - first thing I thought about was the whole man/woman difference - when a woman complains about a problem, men want to fix their problem, but sometimes, women just need an ear, maybe someone to say, well, what can you do/do you plan to do about it? is it something you can find a solution for? NOT being told how to fix it, lol. Hanging back and discerning whether she has a viable problem she needs to air and only needs an ear, or if she's fishing for a fight - you can listen to the one, and walk away from the other, or not engage at least.

I do use Pandora but my wife gave our computer speakers to her sister for who knows what reason, and even though I've asked her, isn't in a hurry to get them back. Some of our issues are simply man/woman issues like anyone else (I have poor listening skills and I'm trying to work on that), but our problems go far beyond just the gender gap. If I ever asked her what she planned to do about a problem, even gently, it wouldn't be well received. Just the implication that she "should" work out a problem that she has puts too much pressure on her and she reacts defensively. From where I'm sitting she just likes to vent about her problems and then ignore them in a haze of chemicals until they go away.

One of the things in Al-Anon that I've learned is to not do for others what they can do for themselves. My wife asks me to do things for her that she could easily do for herself on a regular basis, and I used to comply. I thought I was helping. Now I don't, and she thinks I'm the meanest man in the world for not "supporting" her.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Heck! If I could get somebody to do for me what I can do for myself and I'd grown accustomed to being waited on, I'd squawk, too. I'd want my way if I were very immature and so I'd tried to get the other person to change back so that we can go back to "normal" - sick - but normal. Few of us experience change and yell "Hurray! Finally, change that I need to do!!!!! I'm happy about that! Thank you, my beloved, for refusing to do for me what I can do for myself. This is exactly what I'd hope you'd do and you did!!!! I love you for this and I love you for so many other things you do for me, too."

Sulking, pouting, punishing, name-calling, quivering lips, silence, sobbing, flouncing out of the room, saying "Nothing!" when asked what is wrong are all good ploys on the part of a person who prefers things the way they were. That's okay! They can prefer it. We don't have to say "yes" when we really want to say "no." We can say what we mean, mean what we say, not say it mean and let the other person think, feel and say whatever they want. That doesn't mean we've done something wrong. It just means they aren't always taking the change in us as well as we had hoped.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 21st of September 2014 10:04:01 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 21st of September 2014 10:04:56 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 21st of September 2014 10:10:57 PM

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