It's all my fault - Al-Anon Family Group

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

It's all my fault

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Bless your heart!

In some states, the courts are pretty adamant about the spouse and children being maintained in the manner to which they have become accustomed.

And You certainly don't have to explain how things are in your state to me--I'm hoping for the best for you and Son. And I hope you have consulted the best divorce atrorney in your city and that you don't agree to anything AH is deciding without the very best legal advice.

(((((((B)))))))))

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Well, he's right I suppose. You do want it, right? But that doesn't mean that you (and especially your son) have to live with his poor choices, in fact it's because of his poor choices that you want it.

Have you already consulted an attorney? With your son's needs, it will likely be especially important I would think. If AH is rushing it, perhaps it's time to rush to the atty.

Sorry about being portrayed as the bad guy, that doesn't feel good. But in my experience the kids know what's really going on.

Our Al Anon toolbelt is large, but if we are using it constantly it will still tire us to use those tools! Sending you lots of support!

Kenny

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, I have an attorney but I need to meet with her again soon. She told me a long time ago that she would make sure my son's life doesn't get disrupted and that I get to continue homeschooling. What ticks me off the most is that my AH would ever threaten to end the tennis because it is HIS(AH's passion and obsession) since I met him. He wanted our son to play tennis before he was even conceived. He put him propped up against at chair at 4 months old and gave him a tennis ball to hold so that he could take a picture and then framed it. He wanted a tennis playing kid so badly because it is a sport he enjoys so much, as well. Now, he has that but he's not willing to invest in it if we split up? All I see is manipulation and him trying to get me to back down.

And, yes, Kenny, it is what I want. He's active in his addiction currently and I just don't feel I can do this anymore. I don't trust him, I don't respect him, and he is not even close to being emotionally available for me and, quite frankly, I just don't see us ever fixing the bridge that has so much damage from the water underneath. I played my part in this too, but I refuse to use our child as a pawn or to threaten him with anything other than what is deemed fair by law. It's just so sad that alcoholics have to be so manipulative and underhanded.

He even called me Kitty today and pointed at my bedroom as he said it. Kitty was his mother's name and his parents slept in separate bedrooms for a long time. Both his parents were alcoholics and he said, "I refuse to live like Jack and Kitty". OKAY......so, move out. Nope, he won't do that unless I move out too, because he won't keep paying for this house. OI VAY!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Kids love their parents and tend to gravitate more towards the parent who doesn't make them feel as if they need to choose a parent to side with in my experience. What goes on between the parents is their business and a kid really doesn't want to know their business. I get not wanting your son to be pulled from things he loves to do and I'm wondering if your attorney sees how what is best in the child's interest with maybe a therapist's opinion on record might also help to some degree to cement a settlement that protects his best interests at the time of the divorce decree. My "x" always put me in a bad light when it came to my kids. My son needed to believe his Dad and my daughter could see her Dad. They could also both see as they got older that there was no way their parents could have continued to live together. As my son said: "Mom! How did you ever marry Dad? You are both so different." Unfortunately, they were both hurt by our divorce and they were also both hurt by our living together. Both my x and I had issues and those issues affected us and affected our kids. Yet, there was no bad guy. He was very sick. I was very damaged. One of us had to make a move out of that toxic relationship and of the two, I was the strongest. It was me that had to make the move and make the changes. Our kids living in an environment with two people who weren't right for each other anymore was worse for them then me letting go of what really wasn't financial security - which was always a paper bag - and moving into the unknown. My x's disease was not reasonable. It was not mature. It never thought about what was best for my children and me. It was a slow, painful death to continue to live with him. There was nothing there for us really but a battle of wills and that just wasn't good enough for me or for my two children. I got to the point where I knew there had to be something better in life than what I was living. I learned that there was. Yet, I had to give up the life that I had known to move on to the life that was better for me.

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh, that is so true, I just wish my AH would hear me when I say that to him(about kids not needing to hear about their parent's business). He kept talking even when he knew our son might be able to overhear and I told him the conversation was over. He claims our son needs to know it all and realize that the world is an awful place and that he doesn't care what son hears. It's sad, honestly, because I know he loves our son but he just doesn't get it. It's a very selfish disease and I refuse to go down with the sinking ship again. Not this time!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

It does not matter what he says. Watch what he does.

He is so sick and full of alcohol and damaged he can no way be sane. No use in even talking to him at all. Or even be concerned what he might do. A's are all talk most the time.

I invite you to continue to look at what you need and want. Even living in a small nice house is better than living with an A's disease if you want out. Divorcing the house would have to be sold, or one buy the other out. etc.

Your son needs to know dad is sick and does not mean anything he says. Look into a scholarship program for your son. Myself knowing what I do, my taking over and making my own decisions, following my own path without giving the A any attention or weight is my way. Who needs all this boloney?

I like to take control of my own life. He can do whatever he wants. I refuse to allow anyone try to control me or manipulate me.

The disease is wearing you out. What are you going to do? There are resume's on line to fill out, there are places you can go apply right? If you divorce he has to pay child support and maybe alimony too. Look at the laws in your state. La. is always for the mom and wife!

Keep updating us, I feel you are developing an inner strength and conviction!! hugs

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi My Friend I stayed too long in my marriage because I did not want it to by my fault that the marriage ended. I finally arrived at a point that it did not matter if I was blamed, I needed to leave for my sanity and the well being of my child. What happend after that would be up to HP. Please know you are making the right decison and stay focused on your program.

Luiza · Senior Member

Hi Andromeda, it is all my fault here in my separation/divorce too.

My soon to be xH spent 5 days pestering me and insulting me in front of my daughter. Telling her it is all my fault.

On the 6th day when his mum came to visit and sleep over, he spent most of the night back stabbing me in front of my daughter in my own house with me in it.

After that he decided to play the game of "dad of the year" and my daughter (7) went along with it as she realised she could get a lot out of it (ugh)

And after only 3 days of civilised home sharing, today he went against his latest promise of keeping our daughter out of our mess and muttered two totally un-necessary slightly spiteful comments regarding myself and confronted me in a slightly unpleasant way when I gave a short answer to a simple question ~ all of it in a space of half an hour ~ as I got my tool box out and tried to figure out how to deal with it and how to keep calm and carry on, my daughter came to me and said

"yes mummy, I think Daddy moving out is a good idea after all"

Unfortunately he couldn't hear her. I was glad she could see what he was doing and she is confident in living with me only BUT I also got a bit upset, that she wouldn't say this TO him. I know I am asking too much of her, but it would make him wake up and see he is not the dad hero he thinks she thinks he is.
I ended up telling her that I don't want to get involved in gossip (because she was whispering to me behind his back like H and his mum did the other day) and told her not to be afraid to tell him what she thinks.
I regret it now. Poor girl, going through such a difficult time.

Anyway, I am trying to get emotional help for her from outside agencies. Hope she gets some counselling soon.

-- Edited by Luiza on Tuesday 16th of September 2014 04:14:58 PM

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't know how you have stayed this long based on your posts. From my perspective it appears as though he will up the manipulations, bullying and ugliness, even if it means further damaging your son. I am glad you have some great support with your support and al anon fellowship.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs Andromeda, ..

I agree how you have managed so long is really amazing and it says a lot about you wanting to make things work. My best suggestion is figure out what mountain you want to die on and then stick to the deal. My STBAX thinks that because he no longer wants to be responsible that the kids need to give everything up and I said NO. Now he's not paying for school and that's on him .. I have found ways to make it work NONE of which he can take credit for .. them remaining at their school is a big issue for me and I have been extremely clear about that with him. There are other issues that he's legally not going to get out of .. that's just how it's going to be.

I have to stop trying to "make him see the light" .. he's not a rational person he's not going to see things my way .. heck in my case he doesn't even want to do what the Judge tells him he has to do .. guess what .. NOT my issue. I can't make him understand .. it's just not in his make up at this point and time, .. the reality is .. may never be in his make up .. that again is just not my issue.

Hugs S :)

NL14 · Veteran Member

Hang in there Andromeda.

What you are doing is hard. Really, really hard under the best of circumstances, and worse with an A spouse. I'm admiring your level-headedness and your commitment to doing the best for your son in every post. I think what other posters have said is right on: The law will protect you and help you protect your son. Then, it won't matter what your AH says he "will" or "won't" pay for.

Good luck, and hugs!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Aside from being an Alcoholic and having Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I would also use my clinical judgment to diagnose that he is simply a "d#ck." Sorry for being crass.

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

So much good support here. It helps me, too, cause I'm so cody I get anxious when another one of us is being jerked around.

Mark, whatever did we do without you? I was just thinking today that you seem more calm since your marriage. Glad to see you haven't mellowed too much.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Bonnie - my heart goes out so much for your son. Maybe there is more to his Dad than I've gotten to read here for awhile, but Wow! From what I've read, it is very difficult for me to see any kindness he displays in relationship to this young man. You see the whole picture. I know I don't. And I want to confess that his treatment of this young person hurts me for him. I've wrestled with holding my tongue today on what I'm thinking on this issue and tonight I just want to say it to you. He's mean to him.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 16th of September 2014 09:50:24 PM

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I have to laugh at Mark's comment.

It sounds to me as if your A is desperate because he sees that you're strong and are holding on to health. So he thinks, "What does she really are about? I'll threaten her with losing that!" So he's telling you how the tennis will end if you separate. What he means is that he knows that he can't offer any joy by staying with him. He has nothing that would induce you to stay. So it's all about the tennis!

It's funny how they could say, "I'm going to work my sobriety program hard and not make any promises, because you're right not to believe empty words but just watch how well I'm doing and in six months or a year I think you'll see that my recovery is getting stronger by the day." They could say that and then do it and that would be meaningful. But instead they make all the crazy threats about tennis or whatever. Still trying to take the short cut to getting you to do what he wants.

It's ironic that he's saying all this craziness in front of your son as if that's going to make things go his way and that is even more reason for you to put some distance between you. The more they try to manipulate things, the clearer it is who they really are.

You've got all the strength he would love to be able to have. Hugs!

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Hugs (((((Andromeda))))))

It is not your fault! I love Mark's comment as well, it just puts it all into context.

Someone once told me 'it's all your fault you know'. I was furious. And then I was liberated. As Hotrod says, once I accepted that sometimes some people would not like what I was doing, even though I always endeavoured to do my best, I was free to look at things more objectively. It seems to me that swimming up stream is not always a required action. Even though there are some causes that I'll fight for I now try to choose my battles more carefully. Well done you for seeing things for what they are. Sending love.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't know Bonnie's husband like she does...but I'm familiar with the MO. It's ALL about manipulation. He does some things to "try" and show he's a better person, father, husband but it's all so that he can later stop and say, or at least have the attitude of "I did this, that...and none of it worked. This is all your fault. There is no pleasing you." Seen this repeatedly with the being nice and getting flowers for a month, going into missionary devotional Jesus mode for a month (only to get wasted at a strip club and lose his wallet the next month - real Christian - basically showing how fake these changes are) and now AA for a month or two. All this is just to show "I tried...Didn't work. Your fault." It's sad. He doesn't know that you (Bonnie) want him to change for him and then it will filter down to you guys. It's all been manipulation to get a subservient wife back that is attentive and intimate with him no matter what he says or does. If you never talked separation/divorce, it might go on for several more years with him making his fake efforts to clear his conscience of responsibility and then revert back to mean/nasty/sulking/detached for months. Now that you talk separation - it's still manipulation, but it's straight out threatening and punishing.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Agree, PC.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Me, too. Men - love your wives - does not include punishing them, discounting their thoughts and their feelings, scaring them, threatening or manipulating them. To me, it means among other things, give weight to what your wife says and listen for the ways you can empower her and protect her heart. To me, it means when you arise each morning ask HP in what ways you can best treat your wife to make her life happier and more secure in the knowledge of her goodness and value as she tends to you and to your children and to her neighbors in ways that result in her being praised at the gates of your community by you, by her children and by your neighbors.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 09:08:14 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 09:09:28 AM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 09:09:47 AM

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh! Grrrr!

That is so true. A former in-law put my family member through hoops and had the audacity to say: "Well, I wanted to be able to say I tried everything."

Well, Bless your Heart! Didn't you just! I don't hear: I wanted to Do everything. I was willing to Try everything. No, I wanted to be able to SAY I tried everything.

How transparent.

When we get to the place where we can say (to ourselves) , "Yes, it is All My Fault!" Now what? Yes--I could see you were one fatally flawed little individual and I married you anyway.
Yes. I compromised unilaterally over and over and over. Yes! To keep the peace I didn't say anything when you were making preposterous statements and behaving like an 8 year old on Crack. Yes! It is all my fault and you can tell your family and your friends and your workmates and passing strangers that it's all my fault.

And I know what the truth is and I don't care anymore. Do whatever you need to do to justify yourself. I'm taking care of me and my children and animals and you look like a damn' fool.

Sorry--got carried away. I needed to hear that. Thanks for introducing the topic and giving us all a space to look at this, Bonnie.

Temple

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks everyone, and especially Mark for his input! I posted today on FB asking for encouragement and wondering how people can be so mean to those they say they love and care about. I NEVER post personal stuff like that on FB but I was so overcome with anger and grief for my son that I posted. I didn't say who said what to whom or about whom, but I felt I needed prayer and support.

Love what Temple shared about acting like an 8 year old on crack. I remember when my son was around 9 and I told my AH, "You act like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum because they didn't get what they wanted. Our son acts more mature than you." He agreed, but didn't stop his rantings and ravings, LOL.

I know what he's doing, he's said sensational stuff before to tug on my heart strings, to get a reaction, to make me look like the bad guy, etc. I just don't bite anymore. I am planning on meeting with a few new lawyers in the next few weeks to gather as much information as I can. I already have one whom I really like and know I could use her, but I want to see what else is out there and what others have to say.

This is all about control. See, he thinks that we are just going to separate (that was the initial plan) so that he could control the money and SAY what can and cannot be paid for because he earns the money. At this point, I'm moving right towards filing for divorce and skipping the separation. That way, he has no say(except for what is legal) and I can let the courts tell him what he needs to pay for or not. I am so done with the control, the manipulation, the drunken binges, the drunk driving, the passive aggressive stuff, etc. He's walking around the house this AM being all friendly and loving up on the dog and laughing it up with our son while they play ping pong (before school starts).

Temple · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm so impressed.

I remember just the other day, during the last flash flood, when he hadn't gone to work yet and you, you little thing, were out in the yard digging a draining ditcch to try to protect the house.

Kiss the doggy, Daddy. You the Man!

We don't have to say anything--they can read when we've taken another step away. I got a kiss on top of the head this morning. Last night I was reading an old thread I had favorited that had a link to a long article about verbal and emotional abuse.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

For me going the legal direction was where I started taking my power back .. interestingly enough my STBAX did all of the whining about how hard I make everything and yet he was the one threatening me on a consistant basis that he was going to pull the plug financially .. well .. I don't know .. be careful what you ask for comes to mind someone goes around talking about you are going to divorce me .. usually that's what winds up happening.

I'm inboxing you with a must read book that will help sort through the legal process with people with personality disorders .. it's a must read for anyone dealing with these major personality issues .. mine is definitely has antisocial and boarder line personality issues .. I'm sure I could throw some others in there however those are the ones that rear up when dealing with the legal stuff. The common thread I have heard is the judge can't tell me .. and then fill in the blank .. LOL .. YES .. the judge can and will .. he went on and on about his atty and how his atty said blah blah blah .. well guess what butter cup it doesn't matter what I think, he thinks, the atty's think .. it only matters what the judge thinks.

I realize I'm more go for the throat in terms of the courts .. damn it .. while I may have to raise the kids on my own emotionally I will NOT raise them alone financially and he can kiss my big ol' butt about that one. Just because other people have had to .. that doesn't mean I have to .. that is a mountain I'm willing to die on and he should be kind of scared in that regard .. I will get to a point I don't need him .. that will be a good thing. Right now .. I do need him financially .. it will workout. So again figure out what it is you really really want .. figure out what you are willing to let go of and then figure out what meets in the middle AFTER you get the proposal. I know a few things I would have done way way way differently going back .. I could have been divorced way earlier. LOL .. funniest thing is or maybe the most ironic .. I needed this to go on the way it has because I have learned SOOO much and that is a good thing. So win some lose some .. realize there is no perfect agreement .. there never will be and realize that he's going to drag this out .. just stick to boundaries and know what works and doesn't work for you.

The God of my understanding has my situation way under control .. timing .. long .. well that's more my issue on that one .. lol .. I'm ready to be done.

Hugs S :)

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