Dishonesty - Al-Anon Family Group

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

RE: Dishonesty

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Mattie: I agree with your share wholeheartedly. Andromeda: I so appreciate your feedback on what you've experienced in recovery and what you've learned. (((el cee - it is difficult to be an upfront and honest person who shares directly from their mind and heart. A loser according to my Dad is somebody who gets knocked down and doesn't get back up again. That certainly is NOT you, Lorna.)))

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow, I cant believe I made an impact in your life like that, thank you for sharing that.
You have got me sussed, I still want to control and its fear based and unrealistic expectations, you are so right. I want people not to go through what I did and my own disease means im forceful and blunt and then disappointed when they dont do what I tell them, then I take it personally. Lol, im still just as sick as everyone else, just in a different way than I was in the beginning.lol. thank you for this melly, its just been what ive needed, ive honestly been thinking, im not really part of this forum im actually just a pain in the bum to most people and I may be doing more harm than good. Im still finding my way, thanks again for that.x

-- Edited by el-cee on Saturday 23rd of August 2014 11:29:41 AM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks grateful, ive always felt your acceptance and love. Thanks for the post, Its helped me see more of myself.x

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Melly: I just read your share and I loved how you said what was true for you to elcee and what she has taught you and how it helped you. You have such a strong ability to say what you are truly thinking and feeling and I admire that in you. I can relate to feeling confused in reading the post. Sometimes, I, too can feel confused and have learned to just let it be until things become clearer for me. I don't like it. I like clarity. And the truth is that sometimes I don't have clarity and I am noticing some confusion.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 23rd of August 2014 11:27:18 AM

Cathyinaz · ~*Service Worker*~

My take on this thread is it has just pushed a lot of people away because of their shortcomings.

Not talking about lying but I'm feeling its ( My way or the highway in Al-anon ) and that is not good just because it might years to get it or guess what....might never get it so move on.

Just my thought

((( hugs )))

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

El Cee, great big hugs to you today!!! I always appreciate your honesty and love of the program on here.

Honestly, when it comes right down to it, the Al Anon acronym QTIP comes to mind for me. I tend to take things personally even when they aren't directed at me because I am working towards being better at my own recovery. Therefore, my own ego gets in the way and I make it all about me. How's that for honesty, LOL??? But, in reality, it's the truth. Sometimes when I feel that I'm taking things personally, I have to step back and see that I'm making it about ME when really it has nothing to do with me. I'm so hyper focused on my recovery that I forget that others have their own recoveries to focus on, too.

Thanks everyone for the sharing on this thread. Love the openness and kindness of the program here! HUGS!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

This is a community that is pretty caring, tight, and sensitive. Sometimes we we get frustrated and play out our own little coda issues with each other because we care about each other. I am cerainly guilty of that. Group hug. Kumbaya beotches!

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Cathy: Sometimes, I can get kinda "my way or the highway," in my thinking and my behaviors. I do think that since this is my thread that I need to respond on this. You and I have been there for each other in multiple ways. Have you experienced me as a my way or the highway kind of person in relationship to you? I've never thought that way in relationship to you or your program efforts. I do think I have also shared my own shortcomings and what worked for me and what doesn't work for me but I haven't insisted others do it my way. I've simply shared what is true for me - or am I deluding myself on this one, sister?

Andromeda: I love your share here! I, too, can make it about me when it isn't even about me and read a ton of things into something that weren't even said. I've gotten better at waiting on responding at times but not always in my relationships. Progress is about all I'll ever be able to accomplish.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 23rd of August 2014 01:28:00 PM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Melly I have always hesitated using the slogan: "Fake it until you Make it", because I felt that my entire life I had been fakiing it. Alanon meetings and here on this Board were the first places that I felt safe enough to be real.

Taking the talk is not walking the walk, but being honest about where we are and what we are doing is a powerful tool of recovery. The program is not a cookie cutter so it is important to take what you like and an leave the rest

I agree Mark Group hug Kumbaya

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((((Everybody)))))

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

I have always felt this board was helping me until just recently. I am way too early in my program to get derailed. However, there are a few things I need to say. I don't feel I need to justify to anyone that I am working my program. That's between me and my HP. Lately because I am choosing a different path in my recovery than most (not planning on leaving my ah at this time), I have felt condemnation. It's been very passive, but felt nonetheless. This is not what my understanding of Al-Anon is. This thread reinforces what I have been feeling, and it makes me sad. How can we judge what the person who is posting may feel or is doing? This isn't what we are here to do? If I don't feel led by my HP to reply to a post, then I don't. Nor, do I have the right to judge another person's recovery. I know words don't always come across like the poster would like. It's hard because we are not seeing facial expressions and the body language that goes along with the words. So until this thread, I felt my feelings were misplaced. I know without a doubt that my HP led me to Al-Anon, but I also know that my HP did not lead me into confusion. Like el-cee, I needed to vent.

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

I want to apologize. After rereading my post, it sound harsh, and I didn't mean it to sound this way.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I don't ever get frustrated over people choosing to stay with their qualifiers specifically. Sometimes I do with choosing misery and living in fear. There's a big difference. If you are happy with your choices, feeling free, spiritually fit...rock on! If your qualifier makes you miserable, sad, compromising of self, and feeling trapped...well, being honest, that's hard for me to continue "supporting." But I get it also that other people's relationships are their own business.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I also know "just leaving" is not that easy or simple and it may not always be the best decision. Transitions also take time. I'm not God so, ultimately, what do I really know about what's best for others?

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow, this stirred up a lot of stuff! Cloudyskies, yes, there is a lot of information missing when we are not in the physical presence of each other or don't hear each other speaking. I have misinterpreted and I am sure I have been misinterpreted. At times, my feelings have been hurt and I probably have hurt others with my words. I do the best I can to check my motives before I speak or type. I have learned very well how to manipulate with my questions/statements/ sighs, etc. So, with my familiarity of my manipulative behaviors, my gut, my professional training and al anon I can usually spot when I am being manipulated. I also understand when someone does not know better, manipulation is a handy tool for survival. That person coming into the program does not know better, so we are here to guide them to the tools so they can begin to see themselves honestly and lovingly. It makes no difference to me how quickly anyone gets the program, or whether they get it at all. If someone keeps showing up for themselves, I will go the course with them....there is not perfection and no need to strive for perfection because we don't know what that looks like, anyway.

I look for those little cracks of light, which I see when someone is committed to self awareness. I look for congruence. Does someone speak the desire for recovery, yet have no actions for recovery or self awareness. Does the person continue to ask for suggestions, guidance, yet not do anything to increase their self awareness? I don't have to know what someone's schedule is to have an inkling as to whether or not they are working their recovery..it is pretty obvious in the posts after awhile. Then I may ask "what are doing for your recovery?" "Are you attending meetings?" If there isn't any recovery work being done, then a choice is made on my part to shift the components of my response.

I am a holistic health consultant. If a client does not tell me the truth, is unwilling to see that they are not telling the truth or continues to be reckless regarding their health, I won't continue to see them...it does not matter if I lose a paid client. There have been times when I wont even schedule a potential client, as a phone conversation will indicate to me whether or not they will take the necessary actions to help themselves. Some people want me to fix them. At one time this was a rush for me, to be seen as that powerful that they thought I could "fix" them. I knew it wasnt true, but dangit I was going to try and prove them right and add a few more feathers to my wings so I could be assured cuts while standing in line at those pearly gates. Well, I burned myself out; my hair was frazzled and singed and I was a bag of bones.

This is the longest post I think I have ever posted. I appreciate the openness in the shares here, beginning with Gratefuls initial post. I hope I was not offensive in any way. That was never my intent.

-- Edited by PP on Saturday 23rd of August 2014 05:10:45 PM

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Cloudy, im sorry you feel that way, I do feel responsible. I think you may be in the majority, in that you are choosing to stay, well in my own experience. I think it can take much more courage in some cases to stay and that is what alanon is for. I will admit to being judgemental of others recovery, this is my shortcoming and one I do plan to address. Its wrong and I would feel that way too. I hope you choose to stay here, the people will help you even during times when you stumble, I am stumbling at the moment if im honest, ive been reaching out but maybe not in the most constructive way. Most of the time on this forum the alanon is strong.x

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

"Group hug. Kumbaya beotches." Pinkchip, you always make me laugh, in the very best way! Group hug back atcha!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I guess for me, love does not run out. I see them coming back here on mip. As long as I see that, I keep sending them love.

Can't hurt. Its how I was with my students too. I still get these sillies fb ing me how I was the only one who listened and cared, put up with them.

You never know when they will all of a sudden get it, and really want to do it. or be ready. NO different than an A.

I have to say for me it is partly since I am a Jehovah's Witness. In my beliefs Jesus nor God gave up on anyone who kept coming back.

That is MY experience.

Kindness is easy to give for me, patience is just a word. I am what I am. Been here so many years, seen so many miracles and still do. I don't care about dishonesty. Not my problem. All I know is I am an open book and honestly do not care what people think of me. I am not afraid of my truth.

What my creator thinks of me is the very most important.

Gotta say this is why I was so torn about S. I was ok until he stopped the divorce after being scriptually free. then I realized it was so wrong to have any relationship with him.Now I see it as satan tempting me as he knows how lonely I am and alone.

All I know is the creator stayed with me and did not allow anything to happen that would have had me sin.

soooo in all honesty I am not perfect but strive to be in every way I can. sooo I want to be there for everyone who comes in.

hugs, get your pet pig yet???? come onnnnnn

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

That's the beauty of this being a we program and not a me program. We see the same issue from different perspectives - all with value and merit - none better than another to me. To thine own self be true is a guiding principle for me and if I'm true to my own self that is all that is required of me. If I can't tolerate deliberate lying, I can't. If someone else can, they can. What I can't do, someone else can. And what someone else can't do, I might be able to do. We are truly a fellowship of equals that to me are stretching towards or seeing the same candle of truth from our own perspective.

Thanks all for weighing in on this issue. I appreciate your views and I appreciate you even if how you see it is different than the way I see it. Thank you for your courage and your honesty in expressing your true thoughts and feelings on the same issue that I presented originally in this thread.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 23rd of August 2014 06:48:38 PM

-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 23rd of August 2014 07:11:03 PM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

I use to pay attention to things that confused me in the program all the time. The more confused I got the more angry and resistant. I started blaming others because of it, what they said and how they said it and finally went to work on it with my sponsor who asked me a very simple question to think about. "Why would you not feel angry and confused about it...think about where we all come from"? Bingo!! and then he gave me my most favorite personal slogan..."Don't React"!! Don't take it personal and....Don't React. He also taught me that feelings are choices and that how I felt about anything was my choice about how to feel about it. I wanted to disagree and resist at first and then considering I would be left with my own understanding that hadn't and still didn't work I changed and went along with his ESH and my life changed also. There are some deep suggestions in our program for which there are consequences to if we follow them and to if we don't. The consequences are the result of our choices the results of "Our part in it" which I also had lessons with my sponsor on. What we taught me, I originally thought was bassackwards and then came to understand that historically I wasn't good at looking at the picture and coming up with a proper description of it anyway. My way of or part in my life was one of "reaction" rather than "responding" and the difference I learned between them was "a period of time to think and consider the situation and the consequence I wanted from it first" where I could choose the consequence I wanted rather than just accept any consequence that came along when I didn't. Duh...that was rocket science education and to think I use to work for NASA and Missile contractors. Hmmmmm Choosing...my thinker and picker had been hardly used, hardly used well and at times broken and neglected. One of our slogans is THINK!! For the first several years in Al-Anon I use to ask the fellowship to present their perceptions of a thing and then give me feedback on it so that I could compare their perceptions and mine or give me a hint about what I was considering. I asked for a lot of help and it never failed to come to me without payback. Thank you Akua for this family.

Of course I would be outside of reality and rational behaviors...look where I came from!! I consider the guidance of the ESH "Don't judge" and "Quit taking it personally" and the other road signs very carefully. One of my favorite publications in Al-Anon is "As we Understood". I feel so normal after reading that publication...at times borderline crazy and normal.

"The truth as I know it" how compassionate, humbling and merciful. ((((hugs)))) smile

-- Edited by Jerry F on Saturday 23rd of August 2014 06:58:52 PM

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks, Jerry.

cloudyskies · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you so much, pinkchip, PP, el-cee and Debilyn.

pinkchip at the moment things are good. Husband and I are doing more together than we have in a very long time. However, the more I study and the more I learn about myself, the more I find that needs "fixing." At the moment, I see myself as a twisted rope. Since Al-Anon, I have removed some of the twists, but I have a long way to go. I know this, and I am committed to going all the way for as long as it takes.

PP, I'm hoping that you all can see some of those cracks of light in me. I am committed to making me "well." My focus is on myself and I'm loving it. I'm finding it easier to say "no" to people who ask me to do things for them. I used to always put myself on the back burner when others needed me. I am beginning to open up to my family members about my husband. I have always been afraid to do this. I feel myself getting stronger. Recently I am uncovering things about myself that I feel have affected my self-worth. These are things that I thought had been put to rest many years ago. I just have to "keep it simple" at the moment.

el-cee, you are such a warm and beautiful person and you want what you feel is best for people. God Bless You! One of my BIGEST shortcomings is I tend to let things that are bothering me fester into resentment and that's what I was doing here. This is something I have done with my ah for years. Old habits are sooooo hard to break. I need to work on this really hard. I think I'll bring "resentment" up at my f2f meeting on Monday night. I know I need a lot of help with it.

Debilyn, such an uplifting post. Thank you. I am so grateful that God has not given up on me.

I love you all!

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Cloudy when I first arrived at my home group in Alanon, I went to two meetings and didn't come back for a year. One of the reasons was because I thought that all of them had divorced their As, and I wasn't ready for something like that yet. When I came back a year later, and started really listening, I discovered that they had learned how to separate the disease and the person, which I hadn't done, so sometimes used language that seemed like they hated their spouse, but in fact hated alcoholism and dearly loved their spouses.

In fact, I soon learned that half of our attendees had a husband or wife in the AA meeting two doors down! This became my situation within a few weeks as well.

So I learned that sometimes my feelings for what are being implied are actually being projected onto the meeting by me.

Kenny

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

The only thing I can do is keep my eyes on my own paper.
That means I should have a paper to look at.
I should know how to write out a resentment so I can see my own judging and hypocrisy.
It is humbling for me.

As for working with others, I have a set of instructions for the steps to pass on (that's número uno.)
I let God bring me sponsees and I tell them how i sponsor so there's no misunderstanding. I ask them how that feels to them and if they are willing to do the work it works out. If not, I say I would like to remain friends.

The answers to all this stuff is in the chapter Working With Others in the main 12 steps in the Big Book. In it are excellent guidelines for helping people in any way, shape or form - not just sponsorship.
And of course the instructions on how to recover are for people in any fellowship if you can replace the word alcohol with "alcoholic" or even "people"!

It also talks about the prospect who cries for money and shelter before recovery as you mentioned.

I love looking at the Book from Alanon eyes. It's amazing once you can see it!

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

Any feelings that don't come from the Heart Space are not real.
Only good loving feelings are really Real.

The question to ask is, "Is God in this?"

We are Love.
And we serve others because they are Love too.
Whether we like them or they like us or not.

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

"To thine own self be true" does not mean what most people think.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

WTI The AA Big Book is a great source of information. It is not alanon conference approved but I use it often .

This certainly is an interesting thread and has taken many different turns and twists I like to remember the reading in the ODAT that tell us that the new comer owes nothing to Alanon or anyone one in the meeting. If she gains wisdom and grows because of the program she can move on and she does not have to pay back.

We share our ESH in order to continue to grow spiritually ourselves.

I love this quote from the The Merchant of Venice,

:
"That light we see is burning in my hall.

How far that little candle throws his beams!

So shines a good deed in a naughty world."

I like to keep shining that beam regardless

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Interesting thought on feelings....I see all feelings as real, regardless of where they are originated..anger is real but not sure where it originates. Actually, how do we know where any feelings really originate? If I deem any of the feeling outside of my heart as fake, then wont this be an invitation to judge me and hang out in the shame field? I don't know, just interesting things to consider!

-- Edited by PP on Sunday 24th of August 2014 10:31:25 AM

Tasha · Senior Member

"The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Most people try to live by self-propulsion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wished, the show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self- sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.

What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?

Our actor is self-centered ego-centric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired business man who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the sins of the twentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be Utopia if the rest of the world would only behave; the outlaw safe cracker who thinks society has wronged him; and the alcoholic who has lost all and is locked up. Whatever our protestations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self-pity?

Selfishness self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.

So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making."

~How it works pg 58 BB

************ I usually consider the degree to which I recreate my FOO issues right in the rooms ~ I am highly skilled at surviving dysfunction as I learned to be in my FOO. And I do seek closure in my life without knowing it - I will do this in all of my relationships, especially where I feel the safest to do so.

Melly - Wow! Look at you grow. I am so happy for you.
Elcee - you never cease to amaze and inspire me!

Pinky - Thank you for the belly laugh - you and only you! You are so right - our Coda crap is all based on love. I try to remember this when the actors don't stay how I want them. I only care because I care. They only care because they care. Our true selves are so loving. All of us here - brothers and sisters of such a loving Higher power. xoxoxooooo

Tasha · Senior Member

Excuse me if the literature is not allowed here - I haven't been following where the MIP Alanon board or where it is with all of the technical do's and don't in that regard. Peace & Love

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

Seek and ye shall find.
It's more than understanding; it's action.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for sharing your views.

WorkingThroughIt · ~*Service Worker*~

He is in the Truth.

Peace & Love to all on this beautiful late summer Sunday.

likemyheart · ~*Service Worker*~

Grateful, going back to your original post - wonderful idea giving a card with that verbal message - perhaps I would add to it by printing the verbal message on the card as well!

Your original post makes me think of a particular friend I have; I call her my friend not because we hang out together or share secrets or have a long history of friendship. She is my friend because I have chosen to be hers. She needs it. She's a mess, and would agree she's a mess; can't seem to get her life together enough, lots of excuses, reasons why and yeah, she lies because its what lets her escape the reality of her truth - I have chosen to be her friend because she needs a friend. At her best she is funny, sweet, and entirely huggable.

When seen in a group of people, she is vivacious, crazy, wild, irreverent; bucking the system and anyone who tries to judge her for who and what she is. On the occasions when we are alone she can be a completely different animal, serious, thinking, wishing, wanting; she wants a different life, but ......

I know when she is bs-ing me but I don't take it personally because I know that she is truthfully bs-ing herself more. When she asks me for my counsel, I jokingly ask her if really she wants it or does just says she wants it? And, she knows I will give her the truth as I see it, if she wears an ugly shirt I won't say anything but if she asks how I like it..... careful what you wish for.

My hope is that some day, something of what I've said to her will work its way into her head and help her find a path to a better life. The reality is that it probably won't happen. On one occasion I showed up to help with a self-induced potentially life threatening event in her life; afterwards she said she remembers thinking how glad she was that I was there because I wouldn't let her die.

I guess I think of the movie It's a Wonderful Life in that we don't know exactly what will push someone in a direction that will save them; little pearls of wisdom picked up and never forgotten led me to the person I am today.

And of course it doesn't mean I will sit and let someone go on and on about their woes, rarely do people do that with me because I'm likely to say things they don't want to hear.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for sharing your experience, LMH. I loved reading it and how you've handled yourself in relationship to your friend.

Katy · ~*Service Worker*~

I have been reading this thread and trying to figure out what it means to me, and I know I came into alanon dishonest and in denial, I have never done the steps or had a sponsor, and I haven;t been to a face to face in an age but I know this programme, works, I keep coming back because if I don't, I become dishonest again and in my own denial, I am not at peace with myself 24/7 yet but I am better than at any other time in my life, I have just had the courage to leave my husband for the first time and I have learnt a lot about myself in doing so, and now I have gone back, he's still doing and saying things which in my humble opinion are not real or true, I know now I do not have to agree or disagree, that's just his illness, my quest now is to find my own personal honesty, to dig deep into my own integrity and find out who I really am, I think you can tell if someone is really serious about change, it is not for me to try and force change on anyone else, as an example myself I go backwards far more than I go forwards before I get it,and when I get agitated by someone else;s behaviour, I need to check my motives, and ask myself, am I taking it, way too personally.

love

katy

x

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks, Katy, for your candid share, for your experience and for what you've learned. I agree that focusing on ourselves and honoring who we are rather than trying to make someone else be what they can't or won't or aren't able to be is good program. QTIP is such a good slogan to remember, too.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 24th of August 2014 12:53:42 PM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I believe that MY feelings are not facts but usually MY REACTION to what I believe is going on. If I jump in and express my feelings (my reactions) as I have done in the past, I am still reacting to a situation and not learning how to respond from my true self

It is only when I stop, keep an open mind, process what is going on and then look at my feelings and why I am reacting and then and only then respond to the situation , from my true feelings is how I grow I know I often feel angry at a person or an event but when I look deeper I am only afraid-- Expressing anger is easy handling my fear appropriately is what I be live HP asks of me. Feelings are not facts

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Through this program, I, too, have learned my feelings or anyone else's feelings are not facts...knowing that makes it easier for me to be with them and explore why they are popping up. And I am not as reactive when others express their feelings. I have also come to be able to be more accepting of when another expresses what is true for them, which is what Grateful did in her initial post And what others did in their responses. I have been percolating on my responses, my feelings, my reactions to this thread, so this has been helpful. I appreciate hearing what everyone has to say regardless of where they are in their recovery, and appreciate any and all responses to my posts, regardless of where people are in their recovery. I am grateful knowing that people are listening. The playing field is leveled where addictions are concerned. It does not really matter how many years of recovery I have, how many various 12 step groups I have attended, how well I can put together words, how many books/people'a quotes/paragraphs I can share, what my career is or has been; I am muddling through life with all of its joys and muck. Some days are great, some days are crappy and then there are all kinds of days in between. I needed to write this for my recovery this morning..thank for you listening.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.