On shaky ground ... - Al-Anon Family Group

Hullibee · Senior Member

On shaky ground ...

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Ellen,

Why are you afraid to leave him in the evening? If you could go out and take care of yourself, with a meeting or in any other way, wouldn't it be better than staying inside trying to get information out of someone who is obviously confused himself? The more meetings you can go to the more you can get some serenity and finally know what you need to do.

A's lie. Then they don't lie. Then they manipulate. Then they are just drunk and unintelligible. It just wasn't worth engaging with my AW when she was drunk, she didn't make sense 1/4 of the time, and the rest of the time was trying to manipulate me in order to be able to keep drinking. She loved vodka much more than she loved me - that was the affair she was having, and that is the first affair alcoholics have in general. I therefore didn't talk to her when she was drunk, the manipulation was just too much for me to be able to bear.

Kenny

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((Ellen))))))

Wow, that is tough information to take in, no wonder you are reeling.

I found it helped me to get some clarity when I asked myself the question 'if I take alcohol out of the equation, is this behaviour that I would tolerate?' The other question that I started using to check my own behaviour is 'does this enhance or diminish my own self esteem?'

Since my time with Alanon, and with the help of some personal counselling, I have come to understand some of the reasons why I put up with my husband's horrid behaviour for as long as I did.

Another thing that helped me was thinking about characters in movies. Now movies are not real life, but I was thinking about how I felt about a character who stood up for herself and then I would think about how I felt about those characters who were overly compliant. That thinking helped me to know which behaviour felt right for me.

You have to do what feels right for you. For me, preserving my self esteem was my number one priority because whatever the outcome I needed to have that intact (if a bit tattered

). I figured that if I was to be on my own I needed to be able to stand on my own two feet and if I was going to stay with my husband I needed to be someone who he respected.

When I did draw a line on his relationship with another woman I was shocked that he said that my walking out restored his respect for me. I can see his point as well. I was being a bit of a wimp at the time! I was feeling guilty about some debt and also because my mother had recently passed away. Some of the other reasons why I put up with it were to do with my upbringing. And some of it was (is!) about not acknowledging how much we have both changed.

PP · ~*Service Worker*~

Why are you afraid of your denial? Of course you are in denial...we all are in denial on different ways regarding various things. Part of the human experience is uncovering those denials and awakening. Perhaps this fear of discovery keeps you away for meetings? I don't know. I was scared initially, too. I was afraid I would run away from my family and go live in a cave somewhere. I see the humor in all of it now, but at the time the fear was real for me. The reasons you give yourself for not attending meetings may not be the real reasons, at all. Just try that one for a bit and see how that resonates? (((hugs)))

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Ellen: Staying home with him isn't going to stop him from doing what he does but it can stop you from getting the help you need. Of course, you feel shaken up by this admission of infidelity on his part. I don't think any of us would hear that news and be able to stand in our own dignity and truth at the time we hear it. I was in denial for years that on top of all the other things my x did that dishonored me and that I allowed, he was also involved with other women. It wasn't until I'd been in recovery for quite awhile that I realized all the signs of his infidelity were there - including physical problems I had that couldn't be explained by my physician (who probably knew exactly why I was in his office and chose to cover up what he suspected although I don't know for sure) or me. I was accused constantly of what he was actually doing and I called it jealousy when it was actually something else. My faithfulness to my x and our marriage vow was dishonored in many, many ways by the self-centeredness and fear of intimacy my x was driven by in those early years. Had I recognized that he was having sex outside our marriage, I would have divorced him quicker. I'm not saying this is a choice you should make. I am saying that you are being dishonored by his choices and deserve the help and the hope those evening meetings can offer to you that your husband cannot.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I am glad you found us and hope you can get yourself to some face to face al-anon meetings and read some al-anon literature also. The book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews and the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie were so helpful to me when I first found al-anon also. Keep your chin up and keep coming back! Sending you love and support!

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

How horribly painful. I am not going to tell you what you do is wrong or anything. You are going to do what you are, soon "you" will figure out, hey this is not working.

Then you will face this situation feel the pain and go on.

Being an A has nothing to do with him being a cheater. In my experience, when you love someone, you do not cheat on them, period.

He is not the man you married or fell in love with. He cannot have an intelligent conversation.

I am sick you are in this hard situation, the pain, anguish etc. i can tell you this is temporary, you will get yourself out and away from this,it is up to you as to when.

Praying for you, sending you love! ugh debilyn

Tampa · Veteran Member

This is spot on Kenny to what my situation is. My qualifier has a mistress too and I call her Vodka. I'm always second. To be honest you posted everything here that I have come to realize. Alcoholics lie over everything, even if it means nothing at all. They are master manipulators and very unreasonable and unintelligible. It is never worth engaging in any "serious" type of conversation when he is drinking.

To the OP, I have found in my relationship personally that we cannot engage sexually because he's unable to function most of the time. He drinks WAY too much in order to engage in an activity as such. Are you staying home in hopes that he doesn't leave to go out to see the other person (even if there is one)? Truthfully, focus on yourself. Once you do that the A will realize that you are taking care of you and then you "might" see some change in his behavior and you "might" not. What you will have gained is great friendships, a bond with people like us, focusing on YOU and seeing a change in you. Al-Anon takes work and I have learned that the hard way. As soon as I stepped away from it, I realized that I go back to my old behaviors. We are much like the A's ourselves. They are addicted to the alcohol and we are addicted to them. They can in fact make us very emotionally sick and physically sick. Please, take care of you. Go to a f2f meeting. Take one deep breath at a time.

Hugs from Tampa Florida!

KennyFenderjazz wrote:
Hi Ellen,

Why are you afraid to leave him in the evening? If you could go out and take care of yourself, with a meeting or in any other way, wouldn't it be better than staying inside trying to get information out of someone who is obviously confused himself? The more meetings you can go to the more you can get some serenity and finally know what you need to do.

A's lie. Then they don't lie. Then they manipulate. Then they are just drunk and unintelligible. It just wasn't worth engaging with my AW when she was drunk, she didn't make sense 1/4 of the time, and the rest of the time was trying to manipulate me in order to be able to keep drinking. She loved vodka much more than she loved me - that was the affair she was having, and that is the first affair alcoholics have in general. I therefore didn't talk to her when she was drunk, the manipulation was just too much for me to be able to bear.

Kenny

Tampa · Veteran Member

Breakingfree wrote:
I am glad you found us and hope you can get yourself to some face to face al-anon meetings and read some al-anon literature also. The book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews and the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie were so helpful to me when I first found al-anon also. Keep your chin up and keep coming back! Sending you love and support!

Thank you for the book suggestions. I'm always looking for these as well. There is one I can add and it is Discovering Choices and Al-Anon has this book. I purchased through a F2F meeting.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Codependent no more is the book I'd recommend here too. It concerns me that your reaction to being cheated on and his drinking is that you believe you need to be more attentive. You are also stating things to indicate you will change yourself, your morals, your ideas about what is okay and not okay, just to be with him and to get some form of love and acceptance from him. This is its own sickness (Codependency) and it can be worked on in alanon. Your self worth need not be tied to this man. In fact, it's way better if it is not as tied to him. Also, there is the erroneous assumption that his drinking, cheating, lying (other unacceptable behaviors) have anything to do with you. THEY ARE ABOUT HIM, NOT YOU. You could be the perfect wife...In fact, I'm willing to be you are loving, attentive, and plenty good enough for any husband who didn't have these issues. Fact is, he has a diseased mind due to alcoholism. It erodes one's morals and has them spinning in circles not knowing what makes them happy and how to act with any kind of integrity or emotional maturity. Your response seems to be to blame yourself and try and fix things. That is futile and degrading to you. You don't have to accept unacceptable behaviors from him and try and fix his issues. Alanon will help you unravel his problems from yours and have your worth and esteem dependent on your HP and yourself and less on what he thinks and does. It's nice to be loved by our spouse (or another adult as a companion), but it's not essential. It is essential to love yourself, respect yourself, and take care of yourself. Alanon will aid you in reprioritizing for the sake of your sanity. Peace of mind wont come from him though. So stop looking and expecting it to. It will come from you, reaching out to others in alanon, working the steps, going to meetings....That will free you and change everything for the better (ideally). Please jump in to Alanon full force.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Affairs for me are/were deal breakers because that meant there was another living influence out there not caring about me or my marriage or my alcoholic/addict spouse and then that at times was also my alcoholic/addict spouse. Yes she was under the influence always and then making decisions such as affairs under the influence. It was health and life threatening and the ground became shaky for me too. I had to do an honest inventory on this and after the inventory made the changes I made. I started to see things in an honestly perspective and started to change me. Our relationship started as an affair and I could hope for nothing better inspite of my ego telling me "this is different because it is me"...that is part of the denial and deception of the disease...we say "If nothing changes...nothing changes" and that helped me to change me. Affairs are normal in the disease of alcoholism even perfectly good and moral people will do absolutely insane things while under the influence of alcohol.

Try some centering exercises in program and with your Higher Power and see how it works to bring you to saner decisions. In support (((((hugs))))) smile

Hullibee · Senior Member

Thank you everyone for your honest assessment of my situation. I guess I knew already that i was trying to control the outcome by being more attentive: cooking, cleaning, redecorating, and sleeping with him. I just want to believe that I am his soul mate and No One else can have a hold on his heart.

I do think I need to get the CoDependent book. Can I get that at Al-anon? I read every morning, noon, and night but have not found the peace I need. Im still depending on him. Arrrg!!!

Ellen

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

You can buy it in a bookstore or on Amazon. It isn't Al-Anon approved literature for Al-Anon family groups. "The language of letting go" is by the same author and was more helpful to me while I was attending CODA. I still use it when our readers don't seem to scratch the itch for me.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Ellen,

Just to say that I like the sound of that Arrrg!!! at the end of your last post - sounds like an engine starting and you moving forward. Take good care of you, you are worth it.

I found some meditation exercises on google and they helped to quiet my mind. Jon Kabat Zinn was the author/speaker that I googled. I agree with Grateful as well "The Language of Letting Go" has helped me too.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.