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Post Info TOPIC: What if.....


~*Service Worker*~

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What if.....


Yep, I live in a world where I say what if....ALL THE TIME.  Oh, and then I continue on like this, "What if this happens?  Then what?"  And I go and do mental gymnastics and try to answer those questions with a million different solutions, variables, etc.  Anybody else relate?

This is the single most disastrous thing to my program: my inability to just live: just for today.  I catastrophize the future.  I tell myself things like, "Well, if he does find real recovery and I still don't want to be married to him, then what?"  Or, the classic, "What if he slips up and gets another DUI and has to do prison time this time around?"  Over and over.  I have enough program in me to know which tools to use and most days I try to use them to the best of my ability at that moment.  Today, is not one of those days.  RAH is being normal, yes, normal AGAIN and it always throws me for a loop because I start falling into being nice back.  Not that I'm not nice normally, but this is different because I start opening up and telling him things that I haven't shared about me or people or things in my life.  And, then I beat myself up saying, "Don't tell him about that person, remember when he threw them under the bus a few months ago, so why tell him anything at all?"  Or, I tell him about my hip pain and arthritis diagnosis and then I remember how he told me I was a hypochondriac and how he didn't want to hear about that stuff anymore.  It all goes back to my dysfunction and the bigger problem: our dysfunction.  I never know what's safe to share or not to share and I feel stupid if I share something with him only to have him use it in the future to abuse or complain or condemn.  Don't know if any of that makes sense.  This early recovery stuff stinks sometimes, LOL!



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~*Service Worker*~

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Sounds like anything to do with you is of no interest to him except for mudslinging or criticizing? I can certainly understand wanting to be in relationship to another person who is supportive and won't use what you share against you. Is your AH one of those people? If not, is this another example of hurting yourself by repeating what you know will end up painful for you? When I get sick and tired of doing the same thing over and over and hoping for different results, I'm willing to do a 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th step on it. I've been in relationship to people I know will do the same thing that they've always done and still I act in ways that are self-defeating until I'm willing to look at what payoff I'm receiving from it, share it with my sponsor or another Al-Anon member that I trust, recognize that I'm willing for that character defect to be removed and then humbly asking my HP to remove it.

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

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I do the same loops Andromeda, dropping my guard (why not? Oh, yes I remember why!!!). I agree, when RAH is nice, and I start to get cosy I end up in an echo chamber!

I read a book called the Power of Now which helped me to live in the moment. I hope that you are beating yourself up with a feather, be gentle old friend.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Oh Boy! I used to get locked up between 'what if' and 'if only'.

I always wondered if the regrets fed my anxiety towards the future...

sharing, meetings, and taking steps nudge me towards the present...

-thanks so much for the share, Andro, and the reminder... smile



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~*Service Worker*~

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I do that with my SO and it usually turns out wrong. I'm excited about something and want everyone to know. The news, what I did, where I'm going....it never ends. When I don't say anything and let it go just for a little while, it can and will go away and I forget all about it.......but of course I'm old LOL. Just try one thing that you will think will give you a backlash and see if it don't go away after a while and your OK not saying a word. Silence is golden sometimes. Oh....and I try and wait to be asked before I say anything. If that doesn't happen so be it.



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~*Service Worker*~

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I don't know....When you are ready, it might be time for a sit down with him about how you are ready to take some risks with him (communication-wise). How you are pleased that he is working on himself, but that it is a process. That you are wary and frightened and hope he will work with you as you open up more. I believe you are fearful of taking the risk to open up to him and it is keeping you on the fence and stopping you from making informed choices. If you trust him again and start really talking and he hurts you...or hurts you and won't acknowledge it and work with you...then you have your answer. He's no longer the one to have an adult intimate relationship with. Scary, but it will stop the "what if" game. Take risks and don't be afraid. You will be okay if he doesn't respond the way you want because he's not God, your self-esteem is not as fragile and you were about ready to leave him anyhow. Beats having a "half marriage" or sorts.

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PP


~*Service Worker*~

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I used to be afraid of hearing what I already knew because hearing it made it real and then I had to make a choice.  The distractibility and confusion I created in my head kept me from getting real. I still visit this place from time to time, however, now, when I do, I recognize why I am doing it...often it was a mechanism that I erroneously thought would keep away the pain or prolong me having to take responsibility for my life.  Sometimes I just wanted to be a damsel in distress, wanting to be whisked away by my prince.  Princes are uninitiated men, though...they don't make good rescuers....especially when they look like men on the outside, but are 14 year old boys on the inside.  Why the heck do we buy into those crazy fairy tales????hmm



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Paula



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My brain likes to play out scenario's that rarely coincide with reality or have a happy ending... like early recovery when I was job hunting..."I'm going say, they're going to say, I'm going to reply, they're going to respond..." until my brain determined I was over qualified or under qualified, and didn't get the job... so I didn't bother even going to the interview!!
I played it out in my darn head. It never crossed my mind that people are paid money to make that determination... it wasn't my job. My job was to go to the interview and trust the results of it to the God of my understanding.

What if? ... that makes me think of speaker I recently heard who said, we have two instinctive places we operate from... Love and Fear... everything else on the landscape of our imagination is a shadow of one of these two elements. Am I operating from a place of Love, for myself as well as another.. or fear for myself or another? They also said that it can be easily determined where we are operating from... Are we turning both parties over to the CARE of God, (Love) or are we still trying to figure out, fix or mingle in His affairs regarding others and ourselves.

What if... I just let go and let God... it sure would take a load of work off my feeble hands! And today, my brain is not acting like my best friend, it is a slave driver! LOL

John

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" And what did we gain?  A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."

(Al-Anon's Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions,Step 3. pg 21)

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~*Service Worker*~

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of course when he is actively drinking he is insane, so what would make me want to talk to an insane person?

I quit and would say, oh really, you might be right. I left it at short comeback said serenely.

I get more love and feedback from my pet pig and or about any other animal.

It is hard! When you really come to believe they are so sick and nothing you say is going to be taken as you mean it. Plus we think very differently from an A even whey they are in program.

I like keep it simple. I don't give them any ammunition. Most all A's tell us we are crazy and have mental problems. Just how they are.

Of course they won't take your health issues serious as they always have worse ones. Plus don't want to be responsible for yours.

This was for me how i was able to survive when he left. I saw how selfish he was, how the disease had made him into a monster. that nothing I ever shared with him mattered. When he lied to me and said he fed and did not. that was HUGE for me. I came home to a bunch of animals tattle tailing on him!

Don't mess with my animals and expect anything from me but disgust.



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~*Service Worker*~

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In response to Mark's post up there: I know I am not ready to communicate with him. I had a panic attack last week when I walked in the house and heard him yelling about something at my son (it wasn't my son, he was mad at the TV and explaining to my son as to why he was enraged).

Here's the main problem: I'm too sensitive to his raised voice because it triggers a panic attack and I don't know how to stop it....yet. Number 2 problem: when he senses that I'm shutting down or panicking he switches gears and then starts to whisper but all I hear or see at that point is patronizing and demeaning behavior to try to placate me with his whispering.

The only way I know how to communicate with this man is via email. Talking to him face to face brings about all kinds of fears: Honestly, there are times when I feel that my fears are that he'll say all the right things and hook me back in. Or, that he'll throw me under the bus just one more time. Or, that he'll hook me into getting defensive and that I won't know how to get out of it without either crying or making a fool of myself. Then, I throw myself under the bus for acting like an idiot and once again getting trapped in his gas lighting or stonewalling techniques. Don't get me wrong: I can stonewall, too, and that's not helpful either.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Thank you for describing how you are feeling in relationship to him right now. Step 2, Step 3 and/or Step 11 help me when I've gotten to those Catch-22 places in my mind and heart. My question becomes what now? and sometimes the answer is as simple as fixing myself something good to eat, changing my socks, petting my cat, taking a walk or washing my hair. I don't know what to do so I do what appears as the next right thing, focus on what I'm doing and the what ifs just fade away.

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

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This makes perfect sense to me, the what ifs are a nightmare, gratitude lists help me with those, I can see that in this moment or day everything is ok and that is all I need to deal with.

When my ex was sober for a few years, no program, I thought in some ways it was worse, I was worried all the time and I was disappointed because it didnt really fix anything either, we were still dysfunctional, neither one of us in recovery. I understand as most here will, the whole throwing things back in your face, its horrible, trust is destroyed. I remember sharing my feelings with him sober, him listening, me thinking he cares, then drunk he uses it to taunt me or embarrass me then you think was he actually storing that at the time and I mistook him caring for him gathering ammunition. Sick, sick stuff. Im not sure about being with a person in early recovery though. I hope it gets easier for you.x

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~*Service Worker*~

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F2F meeting covered that last week. it was amazing how many of us admitted we what-if all the time, and then found that 98% of our fears never come to fruition.

Kenny

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~*Service Worker*~

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I have been thinking on this tonight and believe that you can communicate with him on any topic as long as you: Keep the focus on yourself, you examine your motives for sharing with him, let go of an expectation of support or compassion and accept that you are detached enough that no matter what he says or does not say You will be able to validate yourself and your ideas and principles. HP will give you the wisdom. I would also make sure that, as in alanon meetings, I would not repeat any gossip or judgment of anyone.
You are growing and doing well.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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It sounds complicated. Like your husband is a PTSD trigger. Some of it is your issues and some his. No right answer. It would be nice if you could have trust and romantic love in your marriage. I can't imagine staying that long without those things but again, I'm a newlywed. I am not ACOA and I was drunk through my 7 year chappy relationship with another A. I don't walk in your shoes. I would work to get free of overall trust issues and fears. Recovery is about freedom. Free to be single or free to love whole heartedly. That's just what I want for you. I have faith you will eventually take the risks to become the free person you want to be...single or happily married..
Whichever.

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~*Service Worker*~

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HI Kenny Another handsome gentlemen MIPer accounted for.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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My new favorite saying, "What if a star fell out of the sky and poked me right in the eye?" It makes me stop and laugh and remember that all I can what if about is just as likely as a star actually falling out of the sky and poking me in my eye. Silly I know, but it works for me. The older lady that taught me that has taught me so much about perspective and I am done doing the mental gymnastics and time wasting exercises to figure out which way is up for the A's in my life. I am sending you love and support on your journey! Oh, and I love all the faces of our MIP family, such a good looking family we are, truly!

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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree

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I can relate to trusting my AH with issues and then he's thrown it back in my face or has called me weird and strange. He always does this while he's drinking. He has also talked with other people and have twisted what I said to make me sound like a werid b***** and he's the victim. I too have gotten to a point that I can have a panic attack when his rage or dark mood is directed at me. I feel trapped in my own home because he follows me from room to room just to stress his point - until I give in and say he's right - just to get some peace. I have finally made the decision and boundary that when he drinks (which is every weekend) that if he's too obnoxious I was going to find another place to stay for a few days; He always overdrinks on the weekends and is getting weirder as the years go along, and is pretty good during the week. he can sit in the house and brood by himself. Keep coming back here and you'll realize how sick the A's are.

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PP


~*Service Worker*~

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Maybe as I age my desire for simplicity is ever present.  If I cannot trust or feel comfortable sharing, I don't.  I release expectations, the best I can, and do what feels comfortable for me.  If I want to stay in relationships with people who communicate differently than I do, I know and accept the limits of what that relationship has to offer  (again, to the best of my ability).  My eldest son is an alcoholic and is over the top opinionated about some things.  I have differing opinions, which he is uninterested in hearing.  I will not discuss certain topics with him, nor will I listen to his rants.  I never expect I will be heard, yet, I enjoy having him over as I enjoy his quick wit and loving ways with his family.  I know who he is..do I desire something different?  Of course, but I won't lock myself up with any what ifs or wishes.  I would not live with him,either, so I know this is a different situation.  I can take him for a few hours, then time is up for me!  

And having said all this, I get challenged all the time with friendships and other family members.  I don't have any of this figured out, just keep doing the best I can in the moment.  I do appreciate the challenges, though, as I get to see who I am within these conflicts.



-- Edited by PP on Wednesday 23rd of July 2014 07:58:58 AM

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Paula



~*Service Worker*~

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Thank you everyone for the wisdom and encouragement. I can relate to what Paula said about desiring simplicity. I can honestly say that I don't think my RAH even knows what that word means, LOL. He wants controversy, he wants to spar, he wants to tell me(or just about anyone) how wrong they are and how right he is. Maybe that will change with more program and time in recovery for him? I don't know. What I do know is that I don't want to live with that anymore. I also know that I don't want to live in fear and have these trust issues anymore. I just haven't figured out how to best turn them over to God, etc. I keep praying for God to release me from my fears because I know it's one of the things that holds me back from being honest with my RAH, keeps me from making clear decisions for myself, and keeps me stuck in a holding pattern. I know this. It also doesn't help that, with recovery, I've come to realize that the simplicity that I desire may never be present if I continue to stay married to my RAH. He is not a simple person and has admitted to me that the word 'peace' isn't in his vocabulary. Finding peace and serenity and simplicity with someone who likes controversy and who thrives on sparring and jabbing is difficult, at best, because there will always be that wall of subjects that just aren't OK to talk about. Is that how I want my marriage to be in the future? Married to someone where the only thing we can talk about is the weather and sports without a 'discussion'?

LOL, I did say weather up there? He got into it with me about the weather yesterday, too. Yep, I said it was going to be extremely hot this week and he said something to challenge me and pushed my buttons about it. I got up and left the room. Can I tell you guys how tired I am of having to leave the room? And yes, we've even argued about sports especially women's sports because he doesn't think women should get equal pay (both in sports and in the job market) and that topic will always get his feathers bunched up. Hmmm, maybe we can talk about bugs or grass or something? LOL.....

And, like Mark said, I want to have freedom: whether that be freedom in my marriage or freedom being single. Gotta go back and work on those what if's and throw a bunch of program and recovery at that, LOL!

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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!


~*Service Worker*~

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Freedom is a good quest isn't it?

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~*Service Worker*~

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I had somebody in my life for close to 25 years who loved to spar and to dig into other people that he knew had gentle spirits. I sidestepped him continually (and also thanked God I wasn't married to him as did about everybody else in our circle). After 25 years, he finally crossed a line with me that resulted in my letting him know exactly how his behavior affected me and how it was going to stop because it was going to be met firmly with my delivering pointed truths that I knew he didn't want to hear and was used to not hearing by most because he was an attorney who lived to argue and financed his life in this way, too. I knew, too, that when I stepped up to the plate and said what I was ready to say he would change in one of two ways. He would change his behavior - which was possible for him because he didn't argue with judges - or he would leave my presence. He left my presence. Fine with me. And nothing changed until I changed and it changed for the better for me. I was willing to let go of 25 years of being patient, patient, patient and sidestepping him until I wasn't willing to do that anymore and let him experience another part of me that I had held back for a long time as I weighed the cost of staying in my own hula hoop that he liked to step into because he felt entitled to do it or to set a boundary that surprised him and also resulted in an apology from him that was sincere and also required a change of behavior he wasn't ready or willing to make.  It wasn't his stating his opinion that bothered me, it was insisting that I do things the way he thought he'd do if he were me - or anybody else in our circle.  He didn't just want to argue - he wanted to force people to live up to his standards that he wasn't even living up to.  Facing my hesitation and getting clear on who I was and who I would spend my time with and how I would spend it was the determiner of what he would do or not do in my presence.



-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 23rd of July 2014 11:16:16 AM

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



Member

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The responses and shares have helped me so much today.  I live with the what if..... when my AH is sober I love him and we have a great relationship...and then another night the alcoholic reappears.  I am honext and tell him lovingly what my coundaries are and he says I am being "harsh'.  Stay strong and attend your meetings will help and getting a sponser.. thank you again for validating my very thoughts as the AH can make me think I am the one with a problem and not him 

biggrin

 

 



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Debra  D



~*Service Worker*~

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Great Post ...because it is a real problem...the second guessing and distrust of self.  I found out that Al-Anon and the steps, traditions, slogans and the like were all about re-programming...changing my behaviors that didn't work or were not very healthily for me.  Early Al-Anon gave me the message "If you keep and open mind" you will find help and I was ready to try anything and just "do it".  When my mind opened the learning started and what a rush it was.  On second guessing myself and what ifing my then sponsor taught me, "If you're going to what if and get out of balance you're going to have to ...what if not... just after to bring yourself back.  I learned that.  I'd "what if" for a while and then remember to "what if not" right along side it.  I found there something that could help me maintain sanity or as I learned it then, "the continuous and orderly process of thought".  What ifing and what if noting is not orderly process; today I rarely "what if"...it is not based upon reality, is in the future maybe and I can't do anything about it because (pick several thousand or more possibilities) we ain't there yet.   What ifing takes a ton of energy and is circular in motion...it goes around and around and around just like the merry-go-round we speak of in recovery. Second guessing means that I am unsure of myself and don't trust myself and I will complicate even those things under the title of "Simple"  "Keep it simple"...is a miracle phrase and slogan for me.   I'm a multi-tasker from my early years of "doing"...people pleasing, doing anything and everything possible to please others and not have negative stuff rain down on me and so I did tons of stuff and often all within the same period of time.  I was a human doing rather than a human being and it has been one of the hardest defects to conquer.  I can still do it and some times get "wows" from others who watch the whirlwind.  What ifing slows down the multi-tasking and not in a good way because then what I am doing is being confusing and self defeating and which one of us can ever be accused of doing that hey?  Best solution for me during multi-tasking and what ifing is relationship attachment with my HP.  I get to see what I am doing and how and what it is causing to my spirit and my HP sponsors my spirit...I change what I can change and regaind my peace of mind and serenity.  Serenity...an Al-Anon word and promise from "If you keep and open mind".   Love it and love this post.    (((((hugs))))) smile



-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 23rd of July 2014 01:10:11 PM

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~*Service Worker*~

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Thank you Jerry, for your post! I will work on keeping an open mind towards any and all possibilities.

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Never grow a wishbone where your backbone ought to be!
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