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So Im going to try to make this as short as possible. My husband is an alcoholic and has been drinking our whole marriage for 3 years with periods of sobriety the longest one being 2 years ago after he got a duo and was on probation but since we moved in October 2013 he has been drinking off and on trying to hide it and the poo hit the fan in the past month. I was sick and mad that he wasn't helping me I had a stomach virus and had to stay with my parents because he was so unreliable. when i got home i wanted nothing to do with him and refused his sexual advances so he went to the strip club for the first time since his dui. He ended up spending $800 there. and 1600 in total if you add the hotel he was staying in while we were fighting it was practically all of our tax refund until our bank was in the negative. I told him we needed marriage counseling he finally agreed. The counselor asked him if he could just have one beer and be good and he said yea so she said that i should mix his drinks or give him his drinks and he was not to buy his own. I knew from alanon that this was enabling and the wrong way to go but I wanted things to work for the sake of our family. So we tried it of course he did well for the first week. His complaints about me were I don't have sex enough or show him enough affection, I don't work I'm a stay at home mom and i sleep with my 3 yr old instead of in his bed. So I worked on that I tried to have sex more and he just ended up saying that It didn't feel genuine that it felt like i was being forced to have sex and he didn't like that. So i was like please don't go back to the strip club and he promised he wouldn't. a few days went by and one night he came home from work and i gave him a couple of 211 beers 8% alcohol and he was tired and was getting mad at me and ellie for minor things so i got mad at him and he went in and locked his door and went to bed. I left him a note he would find in the morning that said "thank you for all you do. I appreciate your hard work and I want to keep working on things." he texted me from work saying that made him feel like working that much harder for our family to be a better man. Then 5:00 rolled around and he said he had to work late then 6 and 7 and i asked what was up he said the job was taking longer than he thought. Around 10:30 I checked the bank and it showed 200 taken from the atm at the strip club. I lost it. I went into a blind rage. Thank God my daughter was asleep.I packed our bags called my mom and she came and pickup up my daughter. I wanted to go to the strip club and confront him but my mom talked me out of it. but i did go there to see if he took the car and when i saw that he did my dad came and picked it up so he wouldn't drive it home drunk. He called me at 2am furious that the car was taken and he didn't want to wait an hour for a cab so he had to walk 6 miles home. I was asleep then the next day he talked about divorce and giving up on me that he shouldn't have to change for me. That I was being selfish and why wasn't i trying to change he still wasn't getting enough affection. which was all bs. I cried and cried and felt the end of our marriage looming. The next day I went on his email and found that he had made an account with www.ashleymadison.com the place where married people go to cheat. He had even started a conversation with another woman and told her he would pick her up so again i was in a blind rage and wanted to find them and confront them. When I saw he wasn't home I just went back to my parents house only to find he had gone back to the strip club and spent $250. So now our account was negative again. Also forgot to say he bought a new car that day that we couldn't afford $500 down and $390 payments a month. So I stopped talking to him and he just went off the deep end. He was posting things on Facebook about how alone he was and just fishing for sympathy. So I said the next day if he wanted to get his family back he had to go through treatment and get help he was very apprehensive. We had a marriage counseling appt the next day and he went. It was messed up. He said the reason he went to the strip club was because I didn't show him affection and didn't fulfill his needs. I was furious. I set it all out on the line for him. Told him to stop making excuses and he walked out before it was over. Then afterward we were texting and he said he would go get help if i took him so I stupid as i am went to pick him him up and took him to a recovery place. The lady there said he needed to go to detox. It was dangerous for him to just stop drinking immediately or he'd have a seizure. He doesn't really drink that heavily I don't know. She said it would take 5 to 7 days and without that she couldn't help him. He said he couldn't take off of work even though he had taken the past couple days because he was so emotionally distraught. So we left he was disappointed. I said don't give up. I took him to get something to eat because he wasn't eating. We sat there and talked and then when it came time to go home he kept saying come in just for 5 minutes I was like I have to go home to take care of our daughter but he was persistent finally I was like GET OUT and was like give me a hug and he wouldn't . So last night he calls me at 1am again i was sleeping and left a message saying he had gotten into a fight at our house. Some guy had knocked on the door. So he went out the back and walked around where the guy was I guess walking. They got in a fight and the other guy was arrested. I don't know if this is all BS. He said it was the neighbors across the street but they never party or cause a ruckus. I think if it is true then it must be the husband of one of the girls he was talking to because he gave his address to both of them. They never messaged back though. I don't know but just being on this forum the other night made me realize how manipulative he is. He also started saying he believes in god after being an atheist our whole relationship with no interest in God. I want to believe that he has faith but it just feels like another way to manipulate me into coming back. He is relentless with manipulation and I always fall for it. I can't give him sex all the time because I have illnesses that make sex painful sometimes fibromyalgia, interstitial cystitis and pelvic floor dysfunction. He said if I gave him sex every day that he would stop drinking and wouldn't need to drink. That I push him to drink with my negativity and lack of affection. I looked on his account today and saw that he requested naked pictures of a woman and I'm furious again. Im not sure I even want to go back to him. When he is sober he's an amazing father and my best friend and I want us to be a family like that again so I try to push him and help him get the help he needs but maybe I'm wasting my time. I feel like its all on my shoulders to save this marriage and family. He said if we break up he's going to montana to work with his dad because he has no family down here and doesnt want to be alone I'm like what about your daughter? So the lease is up in October. I don't want him to have visitation with ellie if I tell him we aren't getting back together he will fall off the deep end again I forgot to say he cut himself the other night because he was so depressed I wouldn't come home. I feel like maybe I should wait and see if he gets help but how long should he get help before I go back and do I even want to go back. I fantasize about having a husband that doesn't drink that loves me and makes me happy. I don't know. I was looking for out patient rehab services where he could go there after work because we need the money. He said he doesn't want to do it after work because he is so tired. Im like well you go to the strip club after work and he's like but I just sit there. Well rehab isn't running a marathon. You just sit there too. I don't know is that type of rehab really work? not sure what to do. thank you for reading!
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 16th of April 2014 08:16:41 AM
We're not supposed to give advice so I won't tell you what I think you should do. it had something to do with a curb and a good swift kick. LOL. I can tell you that whatever you decide to do we will be here to support your decisions, to listen and to offer you as much love as we can. Its obviously a very difficult situation for you and I re-iterate what Betty suggests. Face to face meetings. get a sponsor. to share the more intimate details of what you're going through, and come here, make some friends.
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Not all my days are priceless, but none of them are worthless, anymore.
You've gotta get off that crazy train! And the only way to get off is to become the engineer, take the controls from your alcoholic husband.
My alcoholic wife could make a killing selling snow shovels in Key West when she is sober. When she is drunk, she uses all that sales talent she has to be able to get a drink and keep the family off kilter. Manipulate - OMG, I didn't know what manipulation was until my wife became an alcoholic! Every act is trying to satisfy an impulse.
The only way I know of to take control of the crazy train is through AlAnon. Face to face meetings, online meetings here, reading and participating in this message board, there are lots of means by which you can help yourself. It sounds like you know some basic principles of Al Anon, and you were correct, that whole suggestion of serving him a beer is a *bad* idea, I've been there myself. Your counselor obviously has no background with addictions.
Rehab won't work until your AH decides that he needs it. It IS work! But once he gets low enough, he will decide that he wants to work it. My AW has gone to inpatient treatment twice. First time she did work when she got out, but she relapsed about 3-4 months afterwards. Second rehab she finally just gave up. told them to tell her what to do and she would do it. They did, and she did, and she is now 5 months sober. But she does have to work at it. 4-6 AA meetings a week. Well, that is part of her sentence from the 2nd DUI anyway.
I forgot to mention - when my AW decided she was done, she had had her 2nd DUI and was in jail without bail for 10 days. She decided she had had enough. None of us knows where that bottom is, but our job, as part of the engineer of the train, is to help them find it, and not cushion them from it. Your AH will never admit it but he is miserable. My AW was, that was why she started drinking - poorly treated depression. She kept drinking because she became an alcoholic, and it became compulsive. Someday, your AH may become miserable enough to decide he wants off the train. But he won't as long as he can fight with you and it looks like he might get his way. It won't as long as he can keep spending money with abandon and have no consequences. it won't as long as you keep giving him intimacy even though he isn't intimate.
Please keep coming back. it gets better. I'm a different person than I was 6 months ago. Not perfect, but have made much progress, you can too! And someday soon, you can hit the brakes on hat crazy train because you will be the engineer!
Not supposed to give advice I know but it appears as if you could use a break from the drama. Addicts are just so good at making it all about your supposed faults and how you drive them to the addiction! One thing in your post caught my attention, "I fantasize about having a husband that doesn't drink that loves me and makes me happy". Do not look to him to make you happy as he is not going to deliver. Look for ways for you to make you happy. The meetings will help you with that. They also will help you find a way to distance yourself from his downward spiral and find a balance in your life.
As for him having visitation if you divorce. If he has gone to work with his dad in Montana, the distance alone will take him out of your daughter's life.
I do hope that you can get to some face to face alanon meetings, but in the meantime whatever you decide we are here to support you.
My husband started behaving very badly when he was drinking and, you guessed it, it was also all my fault. After spending a long time trying to tolerate it and expecting him to see that (a) I was on his side and supportive and (b) that we deserved better I had to leave - the final straw for me was that I did not like the person that I was becoming. That surprised me when I noticed!! I changed and I suppressed my own feelings. And I was becoming bitter and hurt. Now it is taking me a long time to restore my sense of self esteem and even my sense of who I am. I wish that I had taken better care of myself earlier. As I resolved to protect my self esteem one thought that helped me a lot was 'would I accept this behaviour from someone who was not drinking?' and then followed this up with 'why does another person's drinking make any difference to what I'm prepared to tolerate?' For me the answers were 'no' and 'it shouldn't'.
What did husband say about my leaving? He said that it restored his respect for me; that he was proud of me for doing it. Of course he said a lot of hurtful things and did a lot of hurtful things in the meantime - but in reality he was already doing and saying ghastly things so it did not make much difference. My thinking also turned to 'how does it make him feel to be behaving like this?' The answer was 'shameful'. So did it help him that I accepted behaviour that made him feel that way about himself? How he feels about himself is not my responsibility, but I did contribute to his abuse by trying to put up with it.
AH and I are trying to live together again. I have not had an opportunity to speak to him about any of this - and it probably would only trigger his defensiveness if I did. It is early days in his recovery and things are not great between us because my trust was destroyed and because I came home a little too soon I think - the consequence is that I am still having to protect boundaries that a reasonable person would take for granted, but I am doing it and it helps me. Anything that undermines my self esteem is a no go as far as I'm concerned. But I still put up with more than I should. One step at a time I guess
It has taken me a long time to realise that I can behave with dignity and that I can walk away from behaviour that I find intolerable. It doesn't mean my marriage is over, it just means that 'up with this I will not put'. It helps me to realise that taking one step at a time is ok - I don't have to solve everything in one action!
Your post brought tears to my eyes. I hope that you don't mind my sharing my story with you, it is shared with love and support.
I looked for meetings and there aren't any until tomorrow. :(thanks everyone for sharing and the advice. I'm just in limbo right now I don't know what to do. He won't get help unless he thinks I will come back but I don't know if I want to.
I remember my life was chaotic like this, very confusing going from one crisis to another to another. Its a really effective tactic used by alcoholics to keep us wrapped up in their world and to allow them to keep on doing what they are doing.
I became like an extra in his life, watching him live this crazy, wreckless life and I done all the usual, plead, beg, bribe, threaten, all of it. It doesn't work. To survive this I had to view it like a game really and I had to up my game, take my emotions, guilt, fear out of it and then I had a fighting chance.
You cant make him stop drinking or see the hurt hes caused or be a good Father, you don't have the power to do make him do anything and that includes make him go to a strip club because you wont have sex with him. He wants you to believe this because then your his hostage. He is driven by alcohol, not by love or trust or all those nice things you want him to feel and think.
I suggest you go to Alanon, learn this new way of thinking quickly and as if you and your wee girls life depended on it. Glad your here, hope you stick around.x
(((Kah27))) I highly recommend getting to F2F Alanon meetings and reading the book: "Getting Them Sober: Vol 4," by Toby Rice Drews. That's what I did when I was going through a similar roller-coaster with my AH. Both of these got me through very challenging times. Sending you lots of hope and support!
All of the A's blame us. They can never take responsibility for their own actions. Don't buy into it. Get help for you and your daughter. This site is good, reading anything you can on Al-Anon is also great. Good luck.
If his seeking help is based on you coming home, it will flop or it's a ploy to just get you back. Recovery can't be contingency based. He has the choice to recover or not and it does not and cannot depend on you.
Boy, oh boy, your post brought back some chaotic memories. You have received some excellent experience and hope for your future. You didn't cause this and you can't control or cure it. The book that was mentioned, is excellent. I have read it many times and referred to it a lot. I look at my life this way.... I only get one ride on this merry go round. I have to make it a good one.... with or without my AH. This is MY ride. I now make choices for MY well being, sanity and happiness. I attend F2F meetings and read the literature, come on line here. It works if you work it.... Welcome, I'm glad you are here.
^^^^ What pinkchip said. You are not responsible for whether he drinks. Accepting that makes him your victim. You didn't cause his drinking, you can't control it, and you very certainly can't cure it. Only he can make the choice to recover.
You have pretty much written what my life was like. Mine never went to strip clubs, he just stayed in the basement drinking and surfing the web for his lustful hobbies. I got blamed as well, for not loving him enough.
When I finally started to push back and not take the abuse, he agreed to counseling. But ne never was the problem it was always outside forces and he denied having a drinking problem. He swore he would never go in-patient.
When he lost his job and had plenty of time on his hands, he went to detox---complained the entire time and swore never to do that again. (One good thing that came out of his first detox was that I found Al-Anon)
He went right into Intensive Out patient (IOP) because this was the easiest for him.....(the easy way was not the best for him) as he drank the entire time he was there and eventually got kicked out.
When I had enough I moved out and he went nutso--I had to get a retraining order.
I could see that he wanted to get well, he just didn't want to enough. He went to AA but still drank. He said he was an alcoholic but he was really still in denial. He went to a 30 day detox and in patient---then came home and relapsed in 3 days.
What did I do? I withdrew all our joint money and put it into my name only to protect the house and bill money. I cancelled our joint credit cards and got them changed to only my name. I locked the guns in the safe and changed the combination. I did what I could to the best of my ability. He still had his own credit cards (just like your AH went and bought a new car) there is only so much you can do).
I finally said that although I loved him I could not live like this and that I even though I did not want to----I would divorce him to protect myself and the kids.
He is now sober for 60 days and still in treatment and away from home.
I am in f2f meetings every week and the kids are attending alateen.
I hope he stays well but I know that I have to focus on me and keeping myself and the kids well.
It may not look like it now but there is hope and it can be found at Al-Anon and also with a good therapist (one with addiction background)
I am still conflicted as to what to do.....the future is unwritten so I must focus on the present.
I feel for you because I lived thru that craziness----I may still face it and have to deal with it............ but I vow to never tolerate being treated like that again.
Keep calm and carry on!!! Jill
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You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. (Dr. Suess)
I feel your pain. My first husband was not an alcoholic but he cheated on me. One thing that I wanted to mention about the strip club and that website you mentioned is that you need to protect yourself from STD's. I guess I shouldn't be giving specific advice. It has been my experience with my AH that he keeps pointing the finger back at me when I talk about why I moved out over a month ago. Remember to read al anon literature. Meetings help too. Also, Getting them Sober by Toby Rice Drews is a great volume of books. Karen Casey has a great book on codependency that has helped me, too.
The safety and mental health of you and your daughter comes first. I have come to the conclusion my husband is an alcoholic even when he isn't drinking. There are still behaviors he has that I can't handle even when he is sober. The roller coaster got to be too much for me.
You are a very strong woman. That is a lot to handle. It sounds as though your husband may have developed a secondary addiction. This is also not your fault. I've noticed throughout the years that men often use sex to punish us when we are not accepting of their behaviors. It hurts. My husband was also keen to websites and also blamed me.
Everyone here is right though, he has to be the one to want help. It seems as though they always find ways to set us up, or set the trap to blame us when they do not choose to go. If you don't come home he won't go. He put the ball in your court so that he could blame you either way. They are very good at avoiding blame, and avoiding the fact that they do need help. Keep in mind that people that actually cut themselves typically do not tell anyone about it. Unless he does this often, he is really pushing the manipulation button. It's not easy to leave and it's not easy to stay. Hang in there.
Thank you everyone for the advice. There is a f2f alanon meeting tomorrow. I just want to feel one shred of hope but everything is miserable. He actually got mad at me for not buying water for him after he put our bank in the negative with strip clubs alchohol and a new car. Though he didn't ask me he said he hinted that he needed water. So he said he was embarrassed having to pay with change at the grocery store. I said he never wants to face real consequences. i let him make me guilty. I feel pathetic. He has recently found God which he's been an atheist his whole life so I'm not sure if it's genuine. I hope it is. He went to an aa meeting tonight. He asked me" I need to know how you really feel. I can accept the fact that we never get back together. I will just concentrate on myself and when I get supervised visits with our daughter. I need to know so I start making the proper changes to better me." "it's simple you want me or u don't. " I said No it's not simple because yes I want you but you are an alchoholic if you don't get treatment and get sober my life with you will be this past month on repeat. He said " I'm not making these changes for you." I'm not sure what to think. Why does he need to know if I want him right now. Why do I feel like I should say yes I want him when I don't know if I do. Sometimes His manipulative lieing makes me want him out of our lives completely but my daughter adores him. I want him to get better but I don't know if I can ever be affectionate with him again
Sometimes it helps to keep it simple, deal with the facts, hes a manipulator so when hes trying to trap you into taking him back and making a decision your not ready for tell him you need time to make the decision. He knows your fears and will use this knowledge to get what he wants. Its a power struggle in many ways and you can take back your own power over yourself. There is hope, I felt it the minute I walked in to my first meeting. I stopped being used and abused very quickly, you will too. Your daughter needs an example of a healthy relationship if she is to not go on and repeat it.x
I am utterly disgusted with these " counselors" and therapists that claim they know how to deal with alcoholism. GOD!! will these people quit claiming that? Unless you have in depth studied alcoholism and FOCUSED primarily on learning it, do not counsel people on it!! Control his drinks? is he an an infant? I literally went through something almost exactly the same with a couple's therapist who tried to make him agree that we have a "code word" when we are out that signals him he has had enough. I just laughed when that was proposed, and when he was ready to go into treatment she told him it was a waste of money and he should do the university study going on where they give you a placebo for 3 months! ah!
Sorry to hijack your thread, but Holy COW. I read that first part and really wanted to slap that counselor. People are spinning their wheels getting help from these people and the medical industry needs to take another look at who is actually equipped to give advice/counseling in addiction. Disgusting.
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Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies.
"he wanted to get well, he just didn't want to enough"
A light went off in my head when I read this from Jellybean1's post. I have always struggled to describe my AH and this is exactly it. My AH always agrees that he is an alcoholic like it is all he has to do. I do understand that admitting is the first step but he has used that as an excuse for years to keep everything status quo. Anyway I wanted to share. Thanks.
-- Edited by ct1203 on Wednesday 23rd of April 2014 09:08:53 PM
Thanks again to everyone for sharing. I've been to two face to face meetings so far and going to them gives me so much peace but then I actually have to put what I learned into action and I've blown it a few times. Detaching is what I struggle with the most. We moved back home with him my daughter is very happy. My husband has been going to AA and even went to church with me and prayed with people and accepted God in his life. It was amazing. I always have a faint voice in my mind telling me he's lieing he'll go back to the strip club he'll drink again, But I'm trying to ignore it. Im trying to live one day at a time and pray more than I ever have. I'm renewing my faith with God. I am so happy he is wanting to get sober. I just wish it were easier to get past all he did and forgive him. I know he wants to have sex but Im still thinkin about him going on that site tAlking to other women trying to cheat. I tell him he haas to earn my trust back but it's like he doesn't understand. I agree about the counselor she was a kind woman but she chose the wrong method. We need to go to counseling but with someone different. I need to get past all he did.
And I know that the way to make the best decision for YOUR life is through the rooms of al anon and working the 12 steps. Run, don't walk.