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Post Info TOPIC: AA ruining my family ... has ruined my family


Member

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AA ruining my family ... has ruined my family


As I sit here, my alcoholic husband is out looking at an apartment.  He says we no longer have a relationship.  This, after 45 years of marriage and one-and-a-half years of sobriety.  I was looking for advice when I came across this site and saw James letter about how AA ruined his life and felt compelled to write.  I totally agree with him.  Since my husband has been in AA he has undergone such a personality change that I don't recognize him anymore.  His new relationships mean more to him than I do, or even our adult children.  He has decided he wants to embrace his new life and toss away his old.  To be totally honest, I never thought the man was an alcoholic.  Sure, he had a few too many on the odd occasion, but who hasn't.  He has embraced the 12 steps and has become a different person, not a good person, but a different person, one who is selfish and self-absorbed and only cares about himself and the program. Like James' wife, he attends 6 or 7 meetings a week, only socialises with his new 'friends' and has given up all his old friends, some we have known all our lives.  I really don't understand and now have to let him go, the only man I've loved my whole life, 45 years, and watch him walk away from a woman who loves him with all her heart, the wonderful home we've built together, and the alienation of his children.  I don't understand any of this :(

 

 



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Veteran Member

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I understand how you feel. When my husband left detox and began attending regular AA meetings, the people there encouraged him to 'focus on himself' and not have anything to do with my children or me, as we are 'triggers' that could cause him to relapse. So after several years of dealing with a drunken husband who drove my kids home from school intoxicated while I was working two or three extra jobs to try to make ends meet (since he was spending it on alcohol as fast as I could earn it), he decided to move out so he could focus on his meetings religously. No help at home. I work a full time job and all the childcare, pet care, cooking, cleaning, laundry, bills are entirely on my plate. I have to get my kids up at 5:30 in the morning so that we can be out the door by 6:20, as I have a 25 mile commute. We're upside down on our house, so selling it so I can move to be closer to work is out of the question. So he gets to sit around all day, focusing on himself, while I try to keep a roof over our heads. Did I mention that every time he leaves detox and commits to his meetings he ends up relapsing? In all the years he's been attending meetings he's never found sobriety with AA. He would actually leave meetings and head straight to the liquor store. I've got bill collectors calling my house all day long looking for him to pay these enormous medical bills he has run up, and in the meantime he's sitting around getting drunk all day. I know AA works for many people, but I think you have to totally be in the right mindset to get what you are supposed to get out of it. Just because someone stops drinking, doesn't mean they stop behaving like an alcoholic and putting their own needs above all others. It sounds like this may be the case for your husband. This is your HP talking to you. I would be willing to bet his sobriety doesn't last.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Dear Spotster
 
Welcome to Miracles in Progress
 
I am so sorry that this very painful situation has developed in your life. A 45 year marriage to an alcoholic required much from you. Alanon believes that alcoholism is a disease over which we are powerless.
 
We who live or have lived with this disease understand as few others can. Living with this disease we too need a program of recovery. I would like to suggest that you check out the Al Anon Face to face meetings in your community and attend The number can be found in the white pages.
 
Please keep coming back here as well
 
You are not alone and there is hope.


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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


Member

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Thank you for your support. Well, he took the apartment and is moving out tonight. I can't tell you how much this hurts, the pain is almost unbearable, losing the man I've loved all my life, but when I see how much he has changed, how he cares for his 'new' friends, treats them as family and treats his own family as not worthy of his time or live anymore, and his complete selfishness, I know I can get through this. His total disregard for his family and old friends speaks volumes as to the type of man he has become. AA has destroyed the kind and loving man I knew and this new person is one I don't know anymore and I'm not even sure I like this new persona. Yes, my HP is taking care of me and granting me the gift of acceptance, but that doesn't make it hurt any less. I've begged him to reconsider, but, in his words, he's on a new path now and there's no room for me :(

Thanks again for your support and I am so glad I found this site, if only to get things off my chest.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Had I not found AA, I would be dead undoubtedly. It was the only way I could stop the destructive path I was on with my drinking. Nobody ever encouraged me to be irresponsible or turn my back on people I had obligations to. This doesn't sound much different than someone coming out of the closet later in life. I almost wonder if that is next. Either way, I get that it's devastating but I assure you, it's not AA. I have NEVER heard anyone one from AA instill that a person's wife and/or family were triggers.

If you need to be angry at AA and carry misconceptions, that's fine, but fact is it saves lives and your husband was likely looking for an out anyhow and this is the medium he found it.

I'm so sorry that this is happening to your marriage after so long...I am also sure that your husband has a different take on things and probably figures he found something that was spiritually meaningful and life changing for him and you were not on board with it.



-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 19th of September 2012 08:36:20 AM

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~*Service Worker*~

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This is also not too different than if a guy came along and stated Alanon was ruining his family life cuz his wife was out at meetings and had made new supports instead of being at home all the time where she belonged. Or for any of you that separated from you alcoholic spouses - Some of them probably do blame alanon, but you all know that it's not alanon that caused it.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Welcome Spot, glad you're here. Keep coming back because the insight I had gained in al-anon was like striking gold.

I agree with Pinkchip, AA is not the cause for ruining your family. no.

It is often said, that the codependent ends up sicker than the alcoholic. I saw that in myself when in a fit of anger, I had put a hole in the kitchen wall and broke the window. That event convinced me that I was, indeed, sick too.

And it is quite possible, that if you believe the drinking is no big deal, yet he has hit a bottom with it ... you two are not in agreement over a trigger that he has determined he cannot live with, a trigger that has the power to turn him into a person he no longer wants to be. My marriage was like that too, I did not like who I was becoming. So I had to detach at all costs, it was the best I could do at that time.

You may want to evaluate your own drinking, has anyone ever complained about your drinking? For me, I wanted to understand it all, so I took the test and explored all of it.

It's going to be okay, no matter what he does or doesn't do. You can always love yourself. Al-anon showed me how to do that ((hugs))





-- Edited by glad lee on Wednesday 19th of September 2012 09:35:55 AM

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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.



~*Service Worker*~

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I agree blaming A.A. for his leaving is alittle misplaced. He arrived at his decisions and is his to bear. If he felt he was an alcoholic and wanted to live without drinking, it is his choice to make. Al-anon has taught me more about myself than anything else I have ever done. With awareness comes acceptance and action, it is hard to lose a loved one and I do feel for you. I hope you can dive into you own recovery program and move forward through this painful time. Keep coming back. Sending you much love and support!

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BreakingFree

Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666

" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."



Veteran Member

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I am sorry that you are hurting this way but AA is not to blame. Your husband is obviously an alcoholic if he has turned to the AA and unfortunately he has HAD to change completely in order to recover. It is the nature of recovery and I am sorry that things haven't worked out. You will find wonderful support here (((hugs)))

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Member

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You're all right, AA is not to blame for his leaving. I know they have saved a lot of lives. I guess I'm just reaching for anything that might explain his complete personality change and AA seemed like the most likely candidate. Yes, has found spiritual awakening and I do attend al-anon meetings, but he has still chosen to complete his journey through life without me and I am having a hard time dealing with that. He has told me that his path does not include me, he has all the support he needs through AA. He attends meetings every day, double meetings a couple of days a week. As for my drinking, I don't drink at all. His drinking was a couple of beers on the weekend. The program is his addiction, not the alcohol, so that was why I was blaming AA. Obviously, he gets what he needs out of the program but I do resent being left behind. Is it possible to manipulate the program to make it fit one's life? Personally, I think the man is a bit bonkers and is using the program to cater to the huge ego he has developed since he's been sober. Or perhaps he's having an affair, who knows? I just know that the man who loved me with all his heart just a couple of months ago has decided I'm not worthy anymore.

Someone just this morning told me that I am not to blame, that the first five years of sobriety can be massively confusing and major decisions shouldn't be made. I just hope he comes to his senses eventually. Either way, I'm doing okay today and I've wished him well and hope he finds happiness.

I am sorry if I've offended anyone, and thanks again for helping me see things from a different angle :)

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Senior Member

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Hi!  Sorry for your pain, I know it must hurt terribly.  I'm a little confused about his drinking habit, why did he feel the need for AA if he only had a couple of beers on the week end?  I agree something else must be going on.  Whatever it is, I know it hurts.

Gettingitright!!



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Just go a step at a time, one day at a time.  And you'll find a rich, thankful life you never thought you could afford.--A Rogers

Gettingitright!



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Hi Highlyfavored,

I don't belive his so-called drinking habit was what got him into AA. He comes from a family of alcoholics, most of whom are in AA, and I think he craved the fellowship more than obtaining sobriety. He took to the program like a duck to water and I believe that is his addiction, hence my blaming AA, which of course is wrong, I know. I actually got him into therapy last year as he was behaving abnormally, at least compared to his behavior before AA. I thought that was working, but it turns out his therapist wasn't an independent counsellor but an AA life coach, a fact he kept hidden from my until last week. I suppose addiction is addiction, whether it be alochol or the program itself, and acceptance of his need to live his own life in a way that makes him happy will be my way of going on alone. I fear the future without him, as I'm now a senior, and have never been without him. We've been together since we were 16 years old and it's like half of me is gone. It's going to be hard to become a single entity instead of a couple. But I will survive with the help of my HP.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate everyone's input, it has helped me through these most difficult of days. Thanks again.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Hi again sweetie, you didn't offend ME, that's for sure, we never have to give anyone that kind of power.

I know this is a painful time and I hope you continue with your meetings and stay close to your fellowship. I had been married for 26 years, and I never thought I could live without him either, I had made my alcoholic husband my higher power, which was wrong, that had to be un-done. I had to lean on a fellowship to hold me up in my grief, and for company. Today, I continue to do that because they are the most beautiful people on the planet.

Our program suggests that we keep an "open mind," and that really worked for me, learning the principle of humility, just staying in a learning mode, just kinda saying to Higher power,

"oh. so this is the way it has to be, huh? Have your way then."   (surrender)

Bottom line is, we cannot KNOW that divorce won't be the best thing for us, in fact, we can believe that it will (faith.)  We can always trust that when we are powerless over something, (in this case, you cannot change his mind) that the best thing for us will, indeed, come to pass. That is how it has worked for me. Faith brings supply. everything I need always comes, Higher power seems to love me sooo much. And I am not "special" or "faithful" as much as I just try to be "surrendered." That's what they told me to just keep practicing.

Your share here today helps ME, my friend, so I do hope you keep coming back, this is a "we" program that works well when we stick together. Keep sharing your grief and know that it is safe to do so, you never have to walk through this alone   (((big hugs)))



-- Edited by glad lee on Wednesday 19th of September 2012 12:21:17 PM

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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.



Veteran Member

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Well, my position is that it is absolutely the fault of AA, or at least the people in it!  I've been a member of both fellowships for awhile...AA a long time, Alanon not so long.  But the people in AA (which is the same thing as AA when you're new and have to lean heavily on humans) tell you to devote your time to getting sober, everything else goes on the backburner.  They do, I did it myself and it's wrong!  It has ruined my life too because my husband did just that, his AA friends got the best of him and my kids and I got the rest.  He went to meetings cock of the walk that he was, boasted about his long-term sobriety, bossed the new-comers around and humiliated them, then came home and acted like an a$$ to us.  Then he went to work where he's a drug/alcohol counselor and earned his paycheck off of teaching the 12 steps.  All the while, I was going to meetings, inventorying myself half to death to see why I was so selfishly asking for my husband to treat us better.  He turned it all around on me and made me doubt myself, I even began having panic attacks!  Finally, I left him before I killed myself and in no time flat he'd replaced me by moving his old girlfriend (who drinks and smokes) into our house!

Oh, he still goes to meetings occasionally, but I can hardly stand them anymore.  I feel like it's just a bunch of bs.  Now, let me write one disclaimer here...AA does help one get sober.  But that is all.  That's a lot for some people, but not enough for others.



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Suebama


~*Service Worker*~

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In one of our daily readers, Hope For Today, there is a reading about the recovery triangle

".... with my Higher Power at the top. Underneath are the basic, core tools, the steps, traditions, concepts, slogans, meetings, service, sponsorship and conference-approved literature. Next comes me and my physical, emotional, and spiritual health. At the base of the triangle are my job, my family, my friends, and my hobbies.

As long as I keep everything in that order, with my HP at the top as my sole focus, everything in my life works serenely, even joyfully. God provides strength, wisdom, and guidance which flows down to me through the al-anon program. With the help of al-anon and HP, I receive what is necessary to maintain a good, balanced life and I attend honorably to my various needs. Then when these things have been taken care of, I use whatever time and energy I have left on work, family, friends, and hobbies. This is how I keep "principles above personalities" and practice "First things first."

If I put something or someone else at the top of my recovery triangle... my life becomes unmanageable. I cannot make a thing, an event, or another person my Higher power without becoming starved in all areas of my life. Such replacements simply do not nourish me. Often when my life does start to feel unmanageable, all I need to ask myself is, "who or what is at the top of my triangle."

 


My recovery is ALWAYS my responsibility, the same is true for anyone else, however anyone chooses to use the suggestions of recovery.  Al-anon, or AA, or MIP, or my sponsor is NOT responsible for my husbands drinking or my divorce, or anything else that has happened in my life.    

I do know this,  victims do not recover.  For as long as I believed I was a victim, I remained stuck.  Grief is one thing, my victim role is quite another.  I could not move on, or know peace as long as I saw myself as a victim.



-- Edited by glad lee on Wednesday 19th of September 2012 02:29:18 PM

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The prayer isn't for Higher Power to change our lives, but rather to change us.



Veteran Member

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I think it is common for us to blame anything or anyone but the person who is at fault. How someone interprets anything is up to them, and their responsibility alone. Blaming the AA for ruining lives is like blaming guns for killing people... neither has any effect without the person using it.

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Member

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He's gone :(

Thank you, everyone, for your input, it's much appreciated.

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(((((Spotster)))))

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~*Service Worker*~

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Spotser

You are not alone  Please keep coming back and try to attend alanon face to face meetings. 

 You will find many who can understand what you arefeeling and will offer constructive support as you recover.

 



-- Edited by hotrod on Thursday 20th of September 2012 12:59:48 PM

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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AA is not going to take away every character defect a person has. Nor will alanon. If folks are so inclined to be abusive jerks....or cheaters.... They often just become sober abusive jerk cheaters. Much of the time when a person gets sober, their personality does shift radically for the better - but not all the time for sure. There are sick people in AA...no doubt.

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~*Service Worker*~

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This has been my experience with AA, I mean not to offend anyone, what I have observed is there are some people who go into AA (and Alanon for that matter) thinking it's a one shot deal .. they only have to do the steps 1x. How do I want to express myself? I don't know if I can put it into words, so this is the best I have got.

1x through the steps is never going to be enough for anyone in AA or Alanon it's a life long practice of working principles and traditions. The first time around only addresses the sobriety issues even then it's a surface issue. AA is important and extremely important in finding sobriety there is a difference in physical sobriety and emotional sobriety. To me emotional sobriety is the same thing as spiritual fitness, if someone is truly working a solid program of AA and/or Alanon their actions are going to match their words. Just like Alanon someone can work the program for years find physcial sobriety and never address the issues of emotional sobriety. My definition of emotional sobriety again is spiritual fitness, when I am spiritually fit then I am able to be with my higher power and work through whatever comes my way in life. My circumstances may not change my perceptions do. I am able to make better decisions and be at peace.

In the beginning yes, AA is a very selfish program, honestly it about has to be to acheive the goal of sobriety. What I have experienced from the long timers is that willingness to truly change the behavior. Unless that willingness and rigerous honesty is there .. then there is no physical sobriety.

It is just as pink said .. sometimes the only thing to come out of AA is a sober jerk and/or cheater that will always be the case just like in Alanon until one really surrenders to the change some people work their program continuing to play the victim role. Everyone else does something to me vs what was my part and how do I change me in this situation.

Actions and words matching for me is someone who is truly working either program, AA or Alanon. If that isn't matching then something is out of balance. For me, making observations not judgements, they are showing me who they are and where they are at in their program.

It becomes more important for me to focus on MY changes and MY defaults than the defaults of either program, AA or Alanon. It is MY perspective skewd or not and it is so easy to forget where the ultimate responsibility of cheaters and liars lay. It is with the cheaters and the liars.

The actual drinking is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to a drinker ditto on the drug addict. There is a whole other slew of issues that the drinking/drugging meerly deflected and those are usually the behavioral character defects. Until someone finds spiritual fitness and can become truly rigerously honest with themselves and others around them they will continue to get what they have gotten. That is not the AA program, that is the person working the program and not working it honestly.

Yes, it hurts like hell to be rejected and no one likes to hear that a marriage has been ended that is an awful place to be, 16 years was bad enough I can't imagine adding more years. What I have learned out of my own experience is I am so much more than I thought I was, I am so much more capable and I even discovered I was human. That was shocking in itself :) I have also discovered I am not a victim I can be a volunteer and that is way to much pain. Instead of focusing on my hope of who I thought my STBAX was, I am putting the focus more and more on being the woman God wants me to be. It takes time and effort to stop long enough to recognize where I cause myself pain and where I can stop it. There is a lot of pain I cause all by my little lonesome.

I hope you will keep coming back and stay very close to your program. If you don't have a sponsor please find one, if you have one utilize your sponsor. It is so important. It really doesn't matter if you think AA caused the demise of your marriage or not .. it only matters to take a look at where you go from here. Yes, it is a craptastic situation ... and pain is pain. For your own mental health find a way to move through it as healthy as you can because in the end you matter and your words may help someone else down the road.

Hugs P :)



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Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.- Maya Angelo



Senior Member

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The program only helps one get well if they work the program. The hard reality sometimes is realizing the alcoholic when drinking needs a enabler, someone, anyone that will put up with their junk. Often when they get well they no longer need the enabler & will move on. I have seen it happen over & over. In fact my ex did it to several women since I left him. My alcoholic son is doing it over & over. First he needed his wife, she left, then it was his brother he manipulated, until his brother saw through it, then he needed his kids, now he has a lady friend that drinks with him so his kids are now a niceness. It is the crazy making of the disease.

there is a difference in physical sobriety and emotional sobriety. 

Rejection hurts like hell, I feel your pain. Even though it was I that left my A husband I still felt like I was the one that was abandon in a way I was but not by my A husband but by the disease. It was the disease I had to come to terms with & learn how to take care of myself.

So often I hear in the program people asking does my A husband love them. It says it the book

" Getting Them Sober " His first love is the need to drink or do drugs, that is pretty much where his love is. Just because someone goes to the program does not mean we are well. For me it is a continuous journey

Please keep coming back, I promise if you go to face to face meetings, come here & read & read, you will start to feel better. There is much love & understanding here & in face to face Alanon, all you have to have is a open mine



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Icie

"Holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die..."

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html



~*Service Worker*~

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Ever know those people who "get religion"? They start going to church all the time, embraceing everything the church says to do, distancing themselves from their family because the religion makes it easy to say - you aren't one of us, you don't understand. My mother got religion when I was a teenager; religion and church gave her an excuse to focus on "it" and not on the problems she was having at home. (no my mom wasn't a drinker at all, just had problems with four teenage girls, poor mom, ha!) I think some people focus on some "out" that lets them focus on "it" rather than on themselves being the cause of their problems. I also think that some people look for that out because they can't - just can't accept the blame for their problems.

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All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France


~*Service Worker*~

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I hate to sound soooo cliché here, but this makes me think of the term, "guns don't kill people. people kill people."

AA and Al-Anon are just tools. It's up to the person using them to make good decisions with that tool or not to.

Unfortunately, as pinkchip said, there are people who continue to be sick in both programs - being in a twelve-step program doesn't automatically mean the person suddenly becomes some perfect, selfless angel. Unless they're really REALLY fed up with their life situation and themselves, if they're jerks pre-recovery, there's a chance they may remain jerks after getting into recovery (only now they turn into self-righteous jerks on top of it all.)

NEVER have I got the impression from watching my friends working an honest program in AA that they are encouraged to abandon their responsibilities in order to maintain sobriety. A part of a healthy recovery program means growing up and being an adult and that means taking charge of their responsibilities.

One thing I noticed about my disease is that I had a tendency for a long time to interpret and view all things to what suits my emotions. If I'm feeling hurt, then suddenly some comment that was maybe meant to be constructive criticism comes across as this person telling me I'm worthless. Al-Anon has encouraged me to approach life and its situations with an open mind and to try to see both sides of the coin where possible. Honest self-reflection is one of those things. If someone's telling me that they can't be around me, well, maybe there is something about me that really in truth may not be pleasant. There really might be some truth to that. I get to discuss things like this with my sponsor, however. She can help me sift through what is real and what is just the alcoholic smoke-screen going up.

Do you have a sponsor? I would say this is something great to talk with that person about.

I am sorry that you're having to experience this pain, however. Please keep getting yourself to meetings.

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I want to say that I was in a committed domestic partnership with a 3 year recovered alcoholic when we met.  She had two relapses one in 2010 when she was fired after 16 years as a paramedic. Another, when her family of origin has some brouhaha over something.  In the last 8 months, she finally had a good job, was home each night, we didn't have issues between us.  We both worked full time, my son graduate high school and is a full time freshman in college.  I am attending grad school part time.  Last February, she started drinking when she and her brother went to a family event and came home drunk.  She did it again, around a Mother's day trip to her family's house.  I had had it and told her to leave.  I had never seen her like this.  Hostile, crazy talking that was unrelated to anything going on in life, obsessed about her father being born illegitimate?  He's 74 what did that have to do with the present?  She drove several miles before falling asleep at the wheel.  Her youngest brother met her on the road and found her before police did.  She was lucky.  I told her she had to go back to AA before she could come home, so she said she would.  She actually is very depressed, refuses to see a doctor or therapist.  Had made suicidal implications in the past.  I am an RN and was terrified by this.  Where was my sweet loving partner who shared things with me?  I still don't know where this came from.  She snapped out of it for a while on a few aa meetings but didn't get a sponsor and stopped going.  She did it again mid July at her 30 year high school reunion.  Several of her friends asked me what was up because they knew her history and that she had been sober.  She didn't stop this time and when she started her verbally abusive tirade, saying untrue hurtful things to my son, I made her move out until she could get in therapy, and AA, and go to a doctor for a referral to an addiction specialist.  She found a sponsor, who told her DON"T talk to me, DON'T go to therapy, get an apartment, move out and focus on herself!!!!  She just walked out on bills, is hostile if I call trying to get these things switched over.   I found her sponsor's # on the phone bill and called her to see if I was being told the truth and she was hateful to me and wouldn't answer if she was directing this crap or is my former partner was making it up.  I am getting an attorney.  I have contact the local AA central committee to report this woman, will have to go to court to get my bills settled and will NEVER refer anyone to AA as a course of my work as a nurse or as an individual.  I expected her to get on meds, get stable, participate in AA, get her thinking clear, come home and resume our life.  Why would a supposedly family repairing organization like this rip my home apart when we didn't have issues prior to her falling off the wagon?   All we needed was for her to have control of her drinking again.  AA is a crock.



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Tammy Johnson


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I hear your pain.  I have been ot my family doctor 4 times in the last 7 weeks since my partner left.  I ususally only went for annual check ups and mammograms/pap visits, but her AA sponsor having her leave and focus on "herself" when I know she is depressed and suicidal has caused me to have major depression and now a medication for that, panic attacks and medication for that, and three blood pressure pills to function.  First time in my life.  We were making plans in early July for our anniversary trip in October.  I know her high school reunion in mid July was her trigger.  I am so angry at AA for having her disrupt our home, when our relationship was not the problem.  I too, only wanted her to recover, treat me like she used to before all this drinking started, and get back to our life which was good.  {{hugs}} to you and your family.  My son seems to be just as confused as I am, but coping better.  He told me today, after she refused to accept her part of the phone bill and switch it to her name as I had asked her to arrange by yesterday....." forget her.  she is crazy."    I agree.



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Tammy Johnson


~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 597
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Why is making an adult observation about blame? The program trains people that any critical thinking is blame. I have witnessed the exact behavior that is stated as a "misconception". 

Denying someone's reality is actually emotional abuse. There is a lot of emotional abuse that is ignored or denied to "protect" the program. 

AA is not above reproach. Just like the Catholic Church is not above reproach. 



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~*Service Worker*~

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In my experience, I attended Alanon and therapy. I have used both in unison. If you discuss relationships with a therapist, their observations are in line with yours. When a family member attends AA, the relationship usually fails. That is cause and effect, not blame. In reality, the partner is not available for a relationship or to be a father/mother. Just like they were not available when drinking. However, if you voice that you are selfish. That is a judgement. If you are observing that behavior, I am certain it is real. Trust your gut.

I had to make a choice at the point I observed that. I decided that an unavailable lifestyle was not for me. I was not co-dependent and I deserved to have support in my relationship as well. My ex-A becomes highly emotionally abusive when he is practicing the program. Once again that is not blame, it is an observation. Why is that? I am not exactly sure.

I do notice his black and white thinking is in high gear though.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 597
Date:

Oh and I was around AA as well. There are members in there that do encourage you to leave your family and date other members. Once again is that blame..... No. It is an observation.

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