Can an alcoholic marriage everbe healthy? - Al-Anon Family Group

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Can an alcoholic marriage everbe healthy?

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

When I saw the title of your post, I thought the better question might be, "Can I ever be healthy in an alcoholic marriage?"

As you mention, Al-anon tells us, yes, it is possible. And there are people in the fellowship who prove that it is true. My experience is, I had started al-anon, I was willing to postpone making any life-changing decisions... I was beginning to learn that I could be happy and content ... but as I was changing and finally learning to care for myself, to set boundaries that I needed to honor myself.... he became extremely uncomfortable. And he moved out a year after I began al-anon.

My marriage basically ended with me filing for divorce because there was no longer any trust between us. Trust is a requirement for me to feel safe in this world. That's where I'm at today.

Do you really like the bar scene? Are you taking care of yourself by being there?

I was sooo blessed to have an amazing sponsor who encouraged me to phone her every day. I really hope you are using this very important tool of the program, a sponsor can put all the insanity into its proper perspective, the insanity would just melt away in only a few seconds of hearing her voice. My counselors (who unfortunately were not addiction specialists) could never achieve what my sponsor did. My sponsor walked in my shoes, she had been to hell and made her way back. She is the healthiest person I know. She has what I want. (((hugs)))

-- Edited by glad lee on Sunday 1st of May 2011 09:54:09 AM

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

And I just want to say......... You are NOT CRAZY for thinking he is being disrespectful for hanging out in a "meat market." The selfish moron... oops, sorry.

My husband had a great ability to manipulate me. And if I didn't go along with him, it turned into emotional abuse.

Here's what I learned about myself:

If he decided to tell me that I was a purple pig, I'd tell him he was crazy.

But when he did it day after day, after day after day, I would begin to doubt myself,

"Am I really a purple pig???"

That's why I need my sponsor. She confirms that I am not a purple pig!

The disease is selfish and self-seeking, always wanting its own way.

To thine own self be true, sweetie! You are an intelligent woman. Park yourself in the middle of recovery, it will be impossible to not find clarity.

-- Edited by glad lee on Sunday 1st of May 2011 09:55:09 AM

Otie · Senior Member

Dear Chelle3. No matter what anybody else tells you----the bottom line is that you have to live everyday in your own skin. You determine your own destiny. Only you can set your own boundries.

I remember when I was getting a divorce from my first husband I faced a lot of conflicting advice. 50% told me how selfish and short-sighted I was being. 50% asked why I hadn"t left sooner (those that knew him best). He wasn't an addict--he was a narcissistic jerk. For six years I had tried everything to make it work, including the last year of couples therapy which he dropped out of, but I continued for myself.

It really upset me at the time that so many people thought that I was being "selfish".

Then, one day it occured to me---are these peple paying my utility bills, caring for my children, holding my hand while I am home alone night after night?? NO, NO, NO. That minute, I took a new standard about other peoples' opinion about what I should do. The burden of guilt was lifted right away.

For me there are a number of deal busters in a relationship in addition to addiction.

For those who choose to stay with active addiction for whatever reasons they may have, I wish them well. They have to live in their own skin and they have to make their own choices at bottom line.

I offer my experience in the hopes that It will help you some way in making your own decisions. I have struggled with the same issues.

You might check out what I consider a good web site. www.marriagebuilders.com. Type in "codependency" and "alcoholism". It is not Official literature, but I found it to be sound.

warmly, Otie smile

-- Edited by Otie on Sunday 1st of May 2011 10:07:25 AM

-- Edited by Otie on Sunday 1st of May 2011 10:08:48 AM

-- Edited by Otie on Sunday 1st of May 2011 11:07:52 AM

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Thank you so much for your story Glad Lee and Otie. I was so afraid to post because I really thought people might say I was being controlling by not wanting my husband to go to bars and that my boundaries are selfish. I'm tired from always having to quell my anxieties and fears that in my mind wouldn't exist if I was not involved with an A. It really helps not to feel alone.

I don't have a sponser. I get to return to my F2F meetings this week as my work schedule has changed so I'm off on that day. A member recommended someone at my first meeting, but no one's offered to be my sponser yet. How does that work, do you ask for one or does someone just come up to you and offer to be one?

drummerchick423 · Senior Member

I'm not sure al-anon promotes that an alcoholic marriage can ever be healthy, but as someone else said, al-anon promotes that you can be healthy WITHIN an alcoholic marriage.

I felt, with my exabf, that there was no way we could work on the typical conflict issues most couples had,so long as drinking was a 3rd partner in our marriage. And yes, with an alcoholic, the drinking takes priority.

From having been on various recovery forums and in al-anon off and on for several years, it seems to me that most people living healthy in an alcoholic marriage, end up having to just do their own thing. They have to let go of expectations of getting the "normal" satisfaction and fulfilment FROM THE RELATIONSHIP that people with nonalcoholic partners strive towards, and get it from their inner work. It always sounded to me like being separated.

As the alcoholism progresses, it seems to me that anyone who sticks around must surely have the patience of Job. Late-stage alcoholism is really messy - I saw it with my sister's exhusbnd when I was a kid.

Chelle3 wrote:

I'm struggling with this concept. Our marriage counselor thinks it's possible, alanon promotes it, I can't seem to live it.
I realize alcoholism is a disease, but living with the effects of the disease, especially the fact that alcohol is always #1 can't be good for a marriage. Alcohol is like a mistress, and to me, accepting that fact (the fact that alcohol is #1 in your spouses life and that you will be sacrificed for it) is not healthy. I can't for the life of me see how anyone can be happy/healthy in this situation. If you have to distance yourself from someone's behaviors to the point that the behaviors don't affect you is not a healthy marriage, it's just a coexistance.
We don't have to live this way. There are people that will love us without insisting on causing pain in our lives.
Am I wrong for thinking this way?
In case anyone's wondering what occured that prompted me to think this, here's the story. AH and I have been going to marriage counseling. He's been working hard at our marriage for a month and was like a new man. I am also working very hard at detaching while providing him with the love he needs.
One of my boundaries I set after he had a nervous breakdown last yr was that I will not live in a marriage where the spouse goes to bars without me. This and continual blame shifting are my boundaries, my deal breakers. The night of the breakdown, we were at a bar and my husband saw a client of his ther who was recently divorced and talking to several men. He thought it would be fun to go flirt with her in order to make the men jealous. He did so, even though I said that was inappropriate and then stared at her smiling intermittantly for the next hour or two. They were weird, devious type smiles. He did not take his eyes off her.
This weekend he wanted to go to the local bar to watch a Mullet Toss (drunk people have a contest to see who can throw a dead fish the farthest). I told him I was not comfortable with him going to bars, and that I couldn't accept that. He could do it, but I can't stay in a marriage where that happens. I think it's disrespectful for a married man to go to a meat market when his wife disapproves. He said he didn't know if he could live with me demanding such things. I intepretted that as I don't want to stay married to you if I can't go to bars.
I am willing to let him be free to live his own life. I just want to be free from the pain.
Thanks for reading.

-- Edited by drummerchick423 on Sunday 1st of May 2011 11:27:27 AM

drummerchick423 · Senior Member

Yup- trust and open, honest communication are 2 very important foundations for a rel'ship.

My exabf is in so much denial, and not just about alcoholism. I couldn't trust his words one iota. Nor could I trust that he wouldn't put me in unsafe situations - I mean, come on. Drunks act impulsively and do stupid things so much of the time.

As for going to the bar, I never felt comfortable with my exabf going to the bar. ONce again. Drunk people do stupid, impulsive things. I could never let go fo the fear that he'd hook up with some girl and not even remember it the next day. Or that he'd drive home drunk (he actually admitted to me, driving home tipsy, once or twice.)

I can't even see, with years of al-anon under my belt, getting to the point of not worrying if he was out at bars. But some people are able to do it, I suppose.

glad lee wrote:

When I saw the title of your post, I thought the better question might be, "Can I ever be healthy in an alcoholic marriage?"

As you mention, Al-anon tells us, yes, it is possible. And there are people in the fellowship who prove that it is true. My experience is, I had started al-anon, I was willing to postpone making any life-changing decisions... I was beginning to learn that I could be happy and content ... but as I was changing and finally learning to care for myself, to set boundaries that I needed to honor myself.... he became extremely uncomfortable. And he moved out a year after I began al-anon.

My marriage basically ended with me filing for divorce because there was no longer any trust between us. Trust is a requirement for me to feel safe in this world. That's where I'm at today.

Do you really like the bar scene? Are you taking care of yourself by being there?

I was sooo blessed to have an amazing sponsor who encouraged me to phone her every day. I really hope you are using this very important tool of the program, a sponsor can put all the insanity into its proper perspective, the insanity would just melt away in only a few seconds of hearing her voice. My counselors (who unfortunately were not addiction specialists) could never achieve what my sponsor did. My sponsor walked in my shoes, she had been to hell and made her way back. She is the healthiest person I know. She has what I want. (((hugs)))

-- Edited by glad lee on Sunday 1st of May 2011 09:54:09 AM

GailMichelle · ~*Service Worker*~

glad lee wrote:
When I saw the title of your post, I thought the better question might be, "Can I ever be healthy in an alcoholic marriage?"

Hi Chelle3:
Thank you for asking your question. I'd like to thank Glad Lee for rephrasing it too!
I had asked myself a similar question "before" I began Al-Anon. My answer was NO. It seemed pretty logical to me at the time (pre-Al-Anon days) that it was impossible to be happy AND live with an alcoholic who is in denial. So I did what I thought was best, which was to divorce. In hindsight, I do believe that I chose this option (in part) to take one more stab in the dark to get my ex to stop drinking. It didn't work.
I was ignorant of the fact that my happiness is soley rooted in my interpretation of any given situation, alcohol related or not. My happiness is not dependent on what another does or says. I know, it was difficult to see that at first when this fact was frequently pointed out to me. But as I strived for clarity, to really understand what the heck was going on inside of me, I finally got it! Sure, it's sad to see someone, such as an alcoholic drink his life away. I don't deny that. But I realize after many, many years of living with an active alcoholic that I am powerless over anyone.
I do see some Al-Anon members happy and living with their alcoholic (some of their alcoholics are active, some dry, and some working their programs well). I did not witness this until "after" the divorce. All the people (those who no nothing of Al-Anon) told me directly or gave me subtle hints that divorce was the only sensible thing to do. Now I think "How duh is that!"
After the divorce, I thought my baggage would lighten up a lot. But it didn't. That's when I sought Al-Anon and have gained a lot of wisdom and so much hope.
Again, I like Glad Lee's question: Can I ever be healthy in an alcoholic marriage/relationship? I now answer this question with a "maybe."
If I had to do it all over again, I'd find my own answer while becoming an active member of the program. I'm finding that the most qualified persons to help me are those who have walked in my shoes and have smiles on their faces at meetings - oh, there are many on this board, too. They've earned their "credentials" through firsthand experiences. (not knocking professional counselors)

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Sunday 1st of May 2011 01:05:06 PM

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Sunday 1st of May 2011 01:11:02 PM

-- Edited by GailMichelle on Sunday 1st of May 2011 01:14:30 PM

glad lee · ~*Service Worker*~

chelle,

In al-anon, I had asked someone to be my sponsor after I had been going for a few months. There was a woman there, who definitely had what I wanted, a rock-steady faith. When I moved to another state, someone offered to be my temporary sponsor and I agreed. Once I got settled, I found a different sponsor. I do know this, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. My HP has always supported me and brought to me the things I needed. My HP loves me.

I also want to add, that the motive for your boundaries should always be to take care of yourself. Period. If the motive is to change anyone, oooops, there goes my dis-ease again, now I'm the manipulative one, I build up an expectation and I end up with a hot resentment. You may not want your husband to sit in bars and you can tell him that but, don't have an expectation that he'll do anything different. You don't like bars? I don't either, I can't stand the behavior changes in people who drink.. so, I don't go there. That's a boundary for me. Sometimes I have to be around people who are drinking... the boundary is to not stay long. I always drive myself so I can leave when I'm ready.

Every day, I have to stay in powerlessness. If I can, in fact, do something to change things for myself, I gotta get my a** up and do it. If I can't change something... like other people... I have to practice acceptance. Live and let live.

or

"You be you. I'll be me," as I like to say.

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Thanks again everyone. My boundary for the bar issue is there because for me it is something that causes so much anxiety for me that I am unwilling to expose myself to it. I'm also unwilling to live under the stress of worrying about why my husband isn't home at 2am.

I realize I can't control the drinking or the amount, but when the situation starts to effect my mental health, due to my own anxiety that I'm unable to resolve through alanon and therapy, then I'm out.

tommyecat · ~*Service Worker*~

The answer to your topic question is absolutely YES. You can have a happy healthy marriage in the absence or presence of sobriety. I have not had the gift of sobriety in my home. You can come to your own conclusions by my posts whether or not I am happy joyous and free.

I will say this, I am so grateful for the disease of alcoholism because through it I earned my seat in AlAnon. I too felt much like you did before I came to the rooms. Alanon for me is a 24 hour program. I have found serenity and peace just one day at a time.

DreamXL · Senior Member

I cant imagine how healthy ever fits into this picture. There is nothing healthy about alcholism and its effects on everyone around it. You can live your own life but in terms of a partnership I cant see how its possible. Alcholism goes hand in hand with one sided relationships, neglect, lack of responsibilty and the the list goes on and on. Not sure how any of that resembles "healthy".....and not sure how any of that can be healthy especially when children are involved.

flopadopilus · ~*Service Worker*~

This is why I had a serious conversation with my AH, he went ape when he found out I had a guy friend help me do guy stuff around my house. But he is hanging out with girls while drink in bars on a regular basis. So I am trying to avoid men and stay respectful until our divorce is final, but he isn't changing a darn thing. It is so frustrating to me to never be able to win this battle!

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

When I calm down, what I find is that for me I am very happy with myself. I have a very rewarding, challenging job, many hobbies and 2 wonderful daughters. I am happy with my life, but would like someone who is capable of sharing that with me without interjecting drama. I also find it very difficult to live with someone who is perpetually unhappy.

I guess I'm at peace with myself, but still desire a relationship that doesn't involve continual negative energy.

So I guess my answer is I can be happy with myself, but that doesn't = being happy with my marriage.

White Rabbit · ~*Service Worker*~

I understand what you mean about wondering where your AH is at 2am. I didn't have a program when I was wondering that about my exAH. My second husband, also an A, has been sober a little over 2 years.

Just thinking about waking up at 2am and having him not be there isn't a pleasant thought for me. I'm not sure I would handle that well either, program or no. Just being honest. I see what you mean.

Hang in, and give it to HP. When you just do the next right thing, other things become clear and take care of themselves.

Summer

Free to Be · Newbie

After 30 years of marriage currently with 6 years of sobriety, my a told me, after he blew up about burning his hand on steam while I was in the shower at the other end of the house ,that he was done ,he was sick of me and how I treated him

So tonight ,at dinner ,he told me he was looking for another placxe to live - that he was making a change to make his life better

So here I am defated once again feeling ashamed that I ahve stayed so long ,wondering what I am going to do

I feel lost and hopeless - my life is so sh....

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Hugs to you Free to Be. I've only been married 18 yrs, but I know your pain of potentially loosing a long term relationship. My A did the same thing with me 6 months ago, but he wasn't sober.

I did find some things that helped me. I was a SAHM, I got a job as a nurse on a cancer floor. It is killer hard work, but very rewarding and it gives me financial stability and a family of coworkers.

Alanon meetings help tremendously.

I'm going back to school to get my masters so I can have more financial stability.

When things first hit, I was devastated, probably like you are now. I surrounded myself with my friends, making lunch dates at least once/week. I also went to therapy which helped some. Journaling also helped. I journaled out my feelings.

I'm glad you found us here. Surround yourself with positive support.

Free to Be · Newbie

thanks for the hugs
I have been in Al Anon for many years but not active for awhile - i need to get back to meetings
The sadness of this is overwhelming - we ahve all worked so hard to get to hwre we are =I also work for him so it will mean starting over in a new job also
I am trying to grasp what happens when one minute they are good and the next you are being told to leave
Is this isanity ?or a person on the verge of a breakdown or what - he is actively involved in AA -

Chelle3 · Veteran Member

Free to be, I worked for my husband too. Leaving the job helped our relationship tremendously since it was a source of friction at times.

When my husband went through a similar thing it was a nervous breakdown. It lasted 6 months, and I'm seeing signs of the behavior that led up to the last one creep up again.

mslouise · Senior Member

Hello - can't see how living with an A can be a bit healthy - especially if there are kids involved. I have heard of marriages to an A working, but like other people have said, it's more like a room-mate / maid situation. Not saying one can't hold out for that peace of sobriety, but even in sobriety, a happy household guarentee is not made. I can relate with the anxiety. It can get to the piont when it's crippling...all starts with a knot in your stomach (this is your instinct kicking in that something just is'nt right - listen to it). The bar thing...don't beat yourself up - If it was your partner, who didn't drink but once a year, and wanted to go hang with the boys at the bar for the big game of the season would you care? You are anxious about the bars for a reason - because you know there is a problem with your A there. Listen to yourself and your instincts - and do what is best for you. I have learned that we can ask for what boundries we need - if others don't understand or respect them, then they don't need to be around.

clep · Senior Member

When both my partner and I are working a strong program our relationship is quite healthy. If either of us or both of us are not working a program, it is not healthy.

As far as the bars go that you describe, I have been there. I stated my boundary and did not act upon it. Looking back as I did not act upon it, it really wasn't a boundary, but a means of controlling him. I now choose my dealbreakers with lots of thought and there aren't many of them, certainly not the amount there was. My program has taught me that many things I found unnaceptable were resolved with some work on myself.

When my A was in active recovery and I was not I drove him crazy. I was insane accusing him of insane thoughts and actions.

When I got back to my meetings and worked my program daily, things improved for me and the relationship. When he started down the road to relapse, my program allowed me the ability to set reasonable, healthy boundaries and protect myself and child from poor situations.

My A has just recently started his program again. I am estimating it will be awhile until things are on a more even keel until he works out what he needs to. Until then, I can use these times as practicing my program in daily living. Some days I feel fed up and like losing it. Those days I post here, or call my sponsor and things are in perspective once again within a short period of time.

Blessings.

Conflicted · Member

I am so in the same place with my thoughts. Why stay married? I've been attending meetings for 4 months and my AH went into a program and is now in AA. It's tough being betrayed. He went into AA b4 married and went to program for about for about 12 years then we had a lot of circumstances with parents ill, babies, home,etc.... And he stopped going to meetings since time so constrained. That was the beginning of the end. For last 3 years I've felt something wasn't right, I just didn't know what. Finally, it all came to head with abuse of hydrocodone. So now I feel betrayed as he did all the things that he knows are not acceptable in my book. Driving under the influence, doing so with my kids and me in car. What makes me mad, is me never, ever thinking he was doing that or that he would put us at risk like that. If anything I thought he was having an affair or maybe doing something like drugs, but I didn't see any over the top behaviors, so I didn't really think drugs.

So now I'm in a place of questioning if we can ever have a healthy marriage? It never really hAs been. He is very stubborn and tends to not fight and argue, but no problem or concern of mine is ever really resolved. He does not share responsibilities, does not follow through ... In essence other than work, he is immature, self serving and unwilling to put anyone's needs ahead of his own. If he does things, it's only because he has chosen to, not because he is following up on a agreement between us. I cannot say how many lists that we've written over the years and he seems all reasonable but he does ZERO to minimal follow through.

I feel like he was the one worried about a marriage lasting, given the way things are these days. Yet he is the one who does the dealbreaker behaviors in a marriage. I'm trying to do all the things I can to "work on the marriage" and I now see it was minimal effort on his part.

So of course trust is broken, any sense of security gone, my belief in him is gone, etc. However, through all of this, I have come to see that I so need to be in Alanon, based on my own reactive craziness that I've learned through growing up in an alcoholic home plus the way I've attempted to deal with my frustrations, disappointments, in this marriage being that none of my wants were a priority even though I was always led to believe they were going to be addressed. That is one of the main reasons I am so upset. He knew I did not want to have kids through the kind of life I grew up with. So I am really questioning why stay in a marriage if the best you can hope for is coexistence. There's more to life than that, but I obviously can't have it with him. He has never truly concerned himself with caring about me in this relationship. So is it better to stay because up until this point, my kids thought we were ok. If anything he did a good job of showcasing me as "THE BAD GUY", because he was the laid back guy and I'd be the one mad all the time cause he never did what he said he would. Everyone saw me as the unreasonable one I'm sure, especially kids since I was/am the disciplinarian, and they are easily swayed and he implies things in his actions. He is a master at subtle insinuations/implications. It is certainly not the marriage I wanted. I wanted as most probably do a partner/reciprocal relationship where we both put our best effort in helping one another get through the day to day.

Oh boy sorry I didn't mean to go on and on. Just trying to say "I SOOOOOO GET WHAT YOU ARE ASKING."

-- Edited by Conflicted on Wednesday 2nd of April 2014 01:04:41 AM

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Conflicted,

I'm not sure that Al Anon promotes that an alcoholic marriage can be healthy, at least not while the alcoholic is active. What it does promote is that the Al Anon member is able to do his/her own recovery program, as you said, to deal with the reactive craziness. And get out of the cycle. Once you have gotten into recovery, your decisions about your marriage are your own. Hopefully they are made through much more clear eyes, and a less foggy brain, that can figure out more objectively what is better for you and anybody you are responsible for. If you decide to stya, you can become healthy. if you can decide to leave, you can do it and not bring all the guilt along, knowing that you did everything you could to make it work, but also knowing that the A is unwilling to change from his/her disease and seek recovery.

Peace
Kenny

Jayla · Senior Member

I realize this thread is old but I wanted to bring it up front because the question the original poster asked is sooooo pertinent to me. I am trying to figure out how to balance financial security vs alcohol being #1 in my AH's life (not us) and the possible effects of raising my kids in an alcoholic home and realizing that my needs will never be a priority or even be acknowledged as valid most of the time. It seems like this poster made a lot of good points.

Chelle3 said:
I'm struggling with this concept. Our marriage counselor thinks it's possible, alanon promotes it, I can't seem to live it.

I realize alcoholism is a disease, but living with the effects of the disease, especially the fact that alcohol is always #1 can't be good for a marriage. Alcohol is like a mistress, and to me, accepting that fact (the fact that alcohol is #1 in your spouses life and that you will be sacrificed for it) is not healthy. I can't for the life of me see how anyone can be happy/healthy in this situation. If you have to distance yourself from someone's behaviors to the point that the behaviors don't affect you is not a healthy marriage, it's just a coexistance.

We don't have to live this way. There are people that will love us without insisting on causing pain in our lives.

Am I wrong for thinking this way?

In case anyone's wondering what occured that prompted me to think this, here's the story. AH and I have been going to marriage counseling. He's been working hard at our marriage for a month and was like a new man. I am also working very hard at detaching while providing him with the love he needs.

One of my boundaries I set after he had a nervous breakdown last yr was that I will not live in a marriage where the spouse goes to bars without me. This and continual blame shifting are my boundaries, my deal breakers. The night of the breakdown, we were at a bar and my husband saw a client of his ther who was recently divorced and talking to several men. He thought it would be fun to go flirt with her in order to make the men jealous. He did so, even though I said that was inappropriate and then stared at her smiling intermittantly for the next hour or two. They were weird, devious type smiles. He did not take his eyes off her.

This weekend he wanted to go to the local bar to watch a Mullet Toss (drunk people have a contest to see who can throw a dead fish the farthest). I told him I was not comfortable with him going to bars, and that I couldn't accept that. He could do it, but I can't stay in a marriage where that happens. I think it's disrespectful for a married man to go to a meat market when his wife disapproves. He said he didn't know if he could live with me demanding such things. I intepretted that as I don't want to stay married to you if I can't go to bars.

I am willing to let him be free to live his own life. I just want to be free from the pain.

Thanks for reading.

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

I understand where you are at, but setting requirements on the alcoholic only makes them feel like a child. Setting boundaries is for you and they don't have to be spoken. They are your own internal check ins that basically say, "This is unacceptable to me, and I choose not to live with this or like this anymore." The alcoholic doesn't need to be a part of this. You decide for you what you can or can't live with.

And, you're right. We don't have to live this way. there are people out there who will love us without causing us pain, but the first person who needs to start loving us is ourselves. Free yourself from self criticism, judgement, hate, etc. When you work an Al Anon program for you, not for your alcoholic, you learn to work on self acceptance and love. That opens us up to the love of others.

I still struggle with many facets of my disease, but I know I've found a much better man than my XAH was. I found a man who values me, a man who takes responsibility for his actions, who is completely honest about who he is and what he brings to the relationship. He's a royal pain the butt sometimes, but he's committed to me and to us. He's a wonderful dad, probably untreated Al Anon as far as I can see, and a quiet confidence about him that sometimes comes off as arrogant. But, in reality, he just knows who he is, what he wants, and isn't afraid to tell the truth directly and sometimes he comes across harshly. What he isn't? He's not a racist, homophobic, mysoginist narcissistic alcoholic. So, hey, that's an improvement right there......

My point is: I found a good man, but he is flawed. And, yet, he puts up with me, too. I am flawed. I still need my program.
I know you are hurting and in pain, but there can be a healthier path for you. Maybe in the marriage? Maybe out of the marriage? That is for you to decide and to ask your HP for guidance. I remember being in marriage counseling and being hopeful that my XAH would have changed. He'd make a few changes, they were temporary, but I was hopeful that it would last. It didn't. He never wanted sobriety. He wanted me to accept the drinking, the strip clubs, the DUI, etc. So, I did. I accepted it. And, then I accepted the fact that I couldn't live like that anymore and that it was unacceptable behavior for ME. That was when my life started over. HUGS to you. hang in there! Please keep coming back!

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

Recently a member here summed it up for me perfectly. "when the pain of where you are is greater than the fear of where you will be, you will move". It took three years of alanon and about 5 months of rapid spiraling from the alcoholic who still works for me to reach that point. Finally the stuff didn't matter as much as my joy. Still going through it. Hugs Jayla it is a process. Progress not perfection.

Bettertomorrow · Senior Member

Hello Jayla,

I too am in a very similar situation - 4 children (one with special needs) and an AH who doesn't want to be sober - plays with it a bit - enough to keep me dangling, until now.

I personally agree that having children in the house changes things - if it was just me and him, then maybe I would reach a point where I was living with a 'lodger' or whatever you might call living with an alcoholic spouse. But no matter which way I look at it, I just can't see any positives for the children when he is mainly emotionally unavailable to them, not showing any interest in them, asleep most of the time or slurring and stumbling around the few times he is concious.

I have been crying most days and find it hard to not cry, even in front of the older children (16 and 17 years old). My 17 year old son has stepped up and become the man of the house and it breaks my heart. I realise that my own mood is bringing down the house as much as my AH is and I am working on that through alanon. I made the decision to leave and we are currently working out what that looks like. He has realised I am serious and is now sad and says he is willing to change, but it is too little too late. I have told him that we need to separate and if / when we are both recovered we can see if the marriage is retrievable or he can go completely, but staying in the house together is no longer an option. The deal breaker for me was when our youngest said to me 'I don't like Daddy anymore. He never plays with me. He's always asleep and drunk. Please can I have a new Daddy?'. I can't live with myself, knowing what emotional environment I am allowing my children to live in. When he is at work, we have a good time, but as it comes time for him to come home, the mood of the house sinks like a stone.

Al anon has been and continues to a tower of support to me. Hugs and best wishes for your own decisions. BTW Andromeda I love your quote about the wishbone / backbone. That is so true for me. Thank you.

Curlyblu · Senior Member

TYFS everyone! This definately an eye opening read. I too feel that alcohol is the mistress in my A's life. As much as he says he loves me, he loves/need "her" more. I just can't give "her" the same kinda fist I would if she was a person.

I understand the idea of being happy within a marriage with an A. It won't be the same kind of happiness I once had. Who knows it just might be better because with time I will be happier with me. It most definately for means for me, I won't love him any more or any less. More important I will love me.

((all)) great posts!

Secret Little Songbook · Newbie

Hello there,

I put my feelings about my own experience with this in a song...it's an outlet for the emotional roller coaster that our lives become when living with and trying to help an addict. Let me know if you can relate. It's called 'SINK OR SWIM'

Take care everyone,
SLS

www.youtube.com/watch

You screamed, "I'm drowning!"
I jumped in to save you
But your ocean was so deep
It pulled me under too.

I started bleeding
Fighting sharks along the coast
Didn't know you were the predator
That I should fear the most.

***

I built a raft
I paddled harder
But you just sat there
Oars dragging through the water

{CHORUS}

I stood still so long
Afraid to rock this boat
There's no staying steady 'gainst your raging waves

And even when the seas are calm
You know it never lasts for long
No peace in the eye of a hurricane

So this is where I go to shore
Can't keep you floating anymore
Yours is a battle that I'll never win

And even after all I gave
It turns out it's your life to save
Sink or swim
Darling
Sink or swim.

{END CHORUS}

We took on water
I bailed it out faster
But you made so many holes
Intent on this disaster

I sailed the white flag
Hoping that they would find us
Didn't know that you were covering
The trail left behind us

***

So why'd I stay?
Why'd I keep treading?
Caught in the current
Couldn't see where this was heading

{CHORUS}

-- Edited by Secret Little Songbook on Monday 20th of March 2017 12:26:37 AM

Jayla · Senior Member

Better tomorrow--I've had a similar experience recently with my sons. We were at a party and one son was very concerned about how much I would drink. I reassured him that I had only drank 1 beer (and only drank 1.5 for the entire night). He said "oh good I don't want you to be drinking beer all the time like Daddy." And the other son recently said "beer is Daddy's baby." His ACCURATE assessment at age 8 blew me away. I didn't know what to say to them. I don't want them to grow up thinking this is normal behavior.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

My kids really struggled in the beginning knowing I do drink socially. They realized over time my drinking and their dad's drinking were two totally different animals. I could drink one or none and have a great time where I was at. I make a point that having fun is not about the alcohol .. They have never seen me drunk nor will they .. I don't get drunk to get drunk. As they have gotten older they are a little more relaxed .. For them me being all they have is a scary idea to younger kids. It took a long time ( moving and 5 years) before they were comfortable with me specifically around alcohol. I don't know how they would have reacted if I was with their dad and I was drinking. I'm sure it would have scared them. Hugs

Jayla · Senior Member

I was pretty surprised at their realizations of their dads alcoholic situation at their young ages. Makes me think it's time to maybe start having conversations with them about it so they don't think it's a normal way of life or a good example to follow. I thought it would take longer for them to realize the situation though. I never considered that they would worry about ME drinking. But maybe they instinctively know like you said that I am the one they can count on. I agree with you about social drinking. IMHO I don't have the allergy that causes the disease so why shouldn't I have a drink or two from time to time? It's really nothing to me one way or the other. I don't like to get drunk. I had TERRIBLE hangovers that snapped me out of the "it's fun to be drunk" phase a long time ago. Also I can't dance when I'm too drunk because it messes up my balance and coordination and dancing is what I LOVE not drinking.

Bettertomorrow · Senior Member

I have had the conversation with my older three children - reassuring them that it is a disease; it is not their fault etc. I have left some Alateen literature for the older two and said there is help for them to process things. The older two have detached themselves from their Afather. It's harder for my 12 year and 7 year old. The 7 year old is accurately aware like your children Jayla. What they are experiencing now is inconsistency as their dad dabbles with AA. So some days he is 'available' for them when he is sober and does a few things with them and other times he is drunk, asleep, unaware and unavailable. At some levels this is worse than when he was drunk all the time - as at least his behaviour was consistent. We knew he would be asleep. Now it really is one day at a time (or more accurately an hour at a time). I have stepped up my detachment which is causing major wobbles for him as he is used to me as a 'fixer-upper' which is a major character defect for me. I have set the summer as a timetable to make major decisions - at this point I will have done just over 4 months in Alanon, but for the children's sake I can't and won't leave it any longer. I am focusing on what I can control. For me personally I think I could potentially be healthy in an alcoholic relationship, but I can't really see why I would choose that personally. I want an equal partner where I feel beloved, not a 'relationship' where my husband is not available and alcohol comes first, even if it is a disease. The deal breaker for me is the children. I can choose to stay or leave my alcoholic, but they don't have that choice. I have to ask myself - what am I teaching them by staying; what role models (both me and their dad) am I showing them; how am I showing that they are my priority by staying in a relationship which is clearly toxic for them? If there are people out there who have stayed with an alcoholic partner where younger children were involved and they can say that the children came out better than if they had left I would really like to hear your shares, because I just can't get this perspective on my own. At my local Alanon group, the only people that stayed were either childless or had grown up children - all the others with younger children eventually left when the programme had helped them re develop enough self esteem / self worth to choose to remove their children from the situation. With grateful thanks to Alanon and hugs to all. x

Junenine · Senior Member

((Chelle3)) - i know i'm late to this thread, but just want to say thank you for posting. your thoughts are exactly what's on my mind, even though my partner is sober right now. the emotional fallout from his addiction has taken a big toll on our relationship. it took my faith and hope and truly dragged them through the mud. so i'm stuck right now on this fundamental question... about staying v leaving, about cutting losses, about leaving someone with a disease who has been very supportive of me in my chronic disease (not addiction). seeing all the underlying dysfunction that accompanies The Disease, and really unsure about how to move forward. can't help but look back and expect more of the same, eventually. very, very unsettling.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

There is a book called What's a drunk? It's Alanon/teen lit I think .. It's geared for Berri young children to get the conversation going. My kids understand that am alcoholic/addict doesn't have to be the homeless guy on the street corner. My daughter had the experience I wonder at times if was because the school was small. She actually was approached by other kids struggling with alcoholic/addict parents who wanted to talk about what they were dealing with she was in high school 9th grade. Unfortunately there was no Alateen in our area .. She did see a therapist and it's looking to go back until she starts into college this fall. My son is younger 7th grade. He doesn't want to talk about it and I respect that. He asks questions as he feels the need.

Jayla · Senior Member

Wow (((Better Tomorrow))) I feel the same as you on A LOT of the thoughts you expressed. My A hasn't gotten to the point yet where he's mostly unavailable for the kids. Well I say that but there are many many nights when he's unavailable to them simply because he won't stop drinking and come home at a decent hour. So he's physically unavailable to them I guess you'd say. His disease is progressing though. He fell down the stairs tonight right in front of (thankfully not on) one of the kids. And we had to spend the whole night at his friend's house so he could drink with him. So there's more unavailability there than I realized I guess. (((Curly Blu))) I have told my AH before that alcohol is his wife and I'm just the side chick. Because it always comes before me. (((All))) I'm enjoying reading your perspectives and would like to see more shares from those who have had young children in this situation and what they decided to do.

Bettertomorrow · Senior Member

Hi Jayla - the other thing which helped me was to examine how much I was in denial and living in chaos. We occasionally see the man I fell in love with peaking through the monster mask of this alcohol disease. Unfortunately I think when you live with an alcoholic on a daily basis you develop a certain level of immunity as you get used to it. I had denied how bad it is - not purposely - but the signs were there. My 12 year old has developed really bad eczema and spends most of his time alone in his room on electronic gadgets. It would be so easy to say well that's what most 12 year olds do - but there is that niggling voice (maybe my HP?) saying that his unpredictable life is causing this. My daughter is developing compulsive tendencies - again 'easy' to put it down to pre exam nerves, but..... and so the list goes on. As the non alcoholic parent I have responsibility and accountability for my children's welfare. I have asked my husband to leave and he has. For me the 3 months since I have really known he was an alcoholic was enough for me to call time as the children have to be my priority and alanon has helped me cement this decision for myself - I couldn't wait to the summer as was my original decision. When I told my 7 year old his dad was leaving for awhile to get better response was 'yay' and was happy that he was leaving. If their dad gets well, then he is welcome back in our life, but for now he will focus on his recovery while I focus on ours. It was an awful decision to make, but I feel like a weight has been lifted and I truly now feel detached and compassionate - rather than attached and hateful. With hugs and love on your own journey and the inner peace to make your own decisions, whatever they may be.

Jayla · Senior Member

Those are some good things to think about Better Tomorrow. Thanks. I have been thinking I need to start journaling so I can look back over time and maybe that will cut out any denial that may be there for me.

Jayla · Senior Member

Those are some good things to think about Better Tomorrow. Thanks. I have been thinking I need to start journaling so I can look back over time and maybe that will cut out any denial that may be there for me.

Helpangel · Senior Member

Thank you for posting this. I have been thinking and kinda stuck in it actually. Trying to think clear when there has been years of confusion is so hard. Lately, I've noticed that I can't feel things like I used too. I don't smile, laugh or do somethings I know that would make me happy. I realized that the hope I have had for so long is gone and the person I hoped would be there after the alcoholic was absent is never going to be. This is it he will probably keep trying to be sober but it only last 4 months in average and then the cycle starts again. Is it better then it was when I finally figured out he was an alcoholic yes, is there a constant safety net, never. I feel like a single parent most of the time with him granting us with his company when he knows I'm pulling way or he wants too. Feeling like roommates with a nagging dose of anxiety always.. waiting for the next thing to happen... how to end it, why can't I just do it...hes overbearing, self absorbed and thinks he is all that.. he robs my energy so much. I try and make it to meetings but daycare is an issue. Trust is broken and every time we get into another disagreement bc I can no longer stand not being heard he manipulates and confuses me every time. I no longer show emotions they have just died the good the bad he kisses me and I just can't stand it but still force myself. I'm in mourning.. I know I am and I know I will get better in time.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.